hydraulic pump o-rings

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:05 pm

With all the problems being discussed about the 0-rings and the worn pump shafts, has anyone ever tried square o-rings which would ride in different places and extend the life of the pump shaft.
Image

per the McMaster Carr website
With four sealing surfaces, you'll get twice the sealing protection as standard O-rings. Also known as Quattro Seals and X-rings, double-seal O-rings are symmetrically designed for sealing on the ID, OD, top, and bottom. This reduces the amount of force needed to create a positive seal, increasing seal life and reducing maintenance. All meet ASTM D2000/SAE J200.

They are available in
Viton® fluoroelastomer works well in higher temperatures, with a range of -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A75. Color is black. Which should withstand the HyTran and temperatures.

According to my measurements they are McMaster-Carr part 6540K136, $14.88 for 25 rings.
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby pickerandsinger » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:38 am

Thats a new one on me, John....Never even heard of square o rings...Sounds real interesting...Have to watch this post....
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:15 am

sounds plausible to me from what you've said and what I've read, although I've only put about 1 minute and 30 seconds into this idea. Maybe some others can give their input and experience with these rings.

I know I tried to get a speedy sleeve from the parts guy at Napa when I brought my pump shaft in; and he gave me a "deer in the headlights look" . This was an middle-aged guy that has worked there for a while too, thus thinking he would have known what I wanted. Apparently I didn't call it by the term he knew of, and he asked me what it was for. He quickly said "oh, well that will not work on that. You need, to just replace the old shaft." He didn't even pull a part to check, or show them to me. Since I haven't ever even seen a speedy sleeve and didn't know much about them, I didn't have much to say back. Maybe I should get the part number and go back and just ask for it that way.
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:03 am

Al, normally a Speedi Sleeve or repair sleeve is purchased by giving the counterman the original seal number and he can use the Speedi Sleeve, or whatever brand he sells cross reference to look up the right sleeve and new seal. You do need a different seal with the sleeve since it makes the shaft larger. If you use the original size seal with a speedi sleeve the seal fits tighter on the sleeve and tends to wear faster. As many have found out, there is not enough room to put a speedi sleeve on with an o-ring.
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:44 am

John, I'll have to respectfully disagree about the need for a different seal, from the SKF website:

"There is no shaft disassembly or machining involved and costly downtime is minimized. Since the same sized seal as the original can be used, there is no need to search for other seals, or keep a stock of different sizes."

Bob

Edit: But maybe the speedi-sleeve could be used with a slightly larger o-ring ID. (?)
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:17 pm

Bob McCarty wrote:John, I'll have to respectfully disagree about the need for a different seal, from the SKF website:

"There is no shaft disassembly or machining involved and costly downtime is minimized. Since the same sized seal as the original can be used, there is no need to search for other seals, or keep a stock of different sizes."

Bob

Edit: But maybe the speedi-sleeve could be used with a slightly larger o-ring ID. (?)
That may be true in some applications, but when you use the speedisleeve for the crank seal they send a different seal.

I have never tried one, but I think you will find a speedisleeve will not fit through the opening in the housing
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby ricky racer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:32 pm

I couldn't find a Speedy Sleeve to fit the application so I opted for the fix below.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40331&hilit=+leaking
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:00 pm

Ricky, I think John and I are just trying to find a simple solution that doesn't necessitate having the machinist skills that you possess.

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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby clodhopper » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:58 am

I wanted to bump this post. I am currently looking at my options, and I like this option vs machining. Has anyone tried it? If so, how is it holding up?

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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby Willy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:30 am

Has anyone actually tried the Quattro X-rings? From my prior experience with o-rings and hydraulics, this might just be the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to Cub hydraulic pumps.

And the McMaster Carr price listed above is still good according to their website.

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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby ricky racer » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:05 am

Willy, for no more than it costs, give it a shot and report back with your findings....
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby Willy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:17 am

That's my plan. I know my pump leaks into the oil pan (engine oil with less than 20 hours on it at a high level and turned black), the block is almost empty and the last time it ran, the pump was making an awful whining noise. Which is one reason it was parked 5 years ago.

If I have to buy 25 and it works, I'll have extras if anyone needs them.

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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby Willy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:30 am

Found Buna-N at the o-ringstore.com for 17 cents each, min of 3. Yep, going to give them a whirl.

Edit:

Same size in Viton, 66 cents each, no minimum.

I contacted them for their recommendation for our use.

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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:12 am

They are now called x configuration. I have been using one on a worn shaft since this original post 4 years ago, and iut is doing great so far. The price of the original x profile has dropped from $10 per 10 o-rings, to $10 per 100 o-rings. The XX which has an extra rib is $10 for 5.
Image

Anytime I am working on a shaft with a groove from an o-ring os seal I use an abrasive buff wheel on my Dremel to go around and around the shaft and smooth any shar curners or lips that have been created by the hardened 0-ring/seal. The advantage of the abrasive buff over emery cloth, etc. is that it also reaches down into the groove to tkae out the little sharp lip that is frequently down in the groove.

Image
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Re: hydraulic pump o-rings

Postby clodhopper » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:00 pm

Thanks for getting back guys. Will order some tonight.


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