time of year for me to get annoyed

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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Ida Red » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:19 pm

Like Bob said try a plug-in 'battery jacket" which fits right around your battery and plug it in. That could be your cheapest route. Red
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby danovercash » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:38 pm

If everything is right with the mag and fuel systems, it should start fine with hand crank. Actually spinning too fast is not good for mag starting.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby DickB » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:56 am

artc wrote:I think it's important to make a distinction here. 6V with a magneto with everything up to snuff should have little trouble starting in the cold.

6V with battery ignition in the same condition will struggle. Here's the reason. when you crank the engine at +70 degrees, your voltage is 5 volts or so. the de-rating of the battery at +10 degrees is substantial, leaving you with a scant 4 volts to the ignition. ever notice that many times your 6V tractor will fire at the moment you release the starter? that's because the battery voltage suddenly went back top to 6 volts or so, increasing the spark.

So all the help you can give your 6 volt battery ignition system outlined above will increase the odds it starts when it has to. Whether it's warming the oil pan, the block, the battery, or converting it to 12 V for you non-purists. The point is you need to do something or it will not start at the worst moment.

BTW, it was 16 degrees in cT this morning. my wife wanted a Christmas card photo on the cub, which was in front of the 41 A (6 volt battery (new), mag, rebuilt) it started without difficulty, as did the cub (12 volt, pertronics). that is, AFTER I put gas in both :?

oh, and I do stand corrected on the compression release - K series Kohler


I had no ideas about the really critical relationship of voltage (6 v.) to temperature for the Cub. The little electric "blanket" for the battery (used ineffectively by me in the past to keep the intake manifold warm) is best used, I now understand, to keep the battery up to the task of starting the tractor by keeping it warm. Soon I'll find out how the battery, in the box, might be warmed by the blanket, or if I need to remove it for overnight warming.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:38 am

DickB wrote: I had no ideas about the really critical relationship of voltage (6 v.) to temperature for the Cub. The little electric "blanket" for the battery (used ineffectively by me in the past to keep the intake manifold warm) is best used, I now understand, to keep the battery up to the task of starting the tractor by keeping it warm. Soon I'll find out how the battery, in the box, might be warmed by the blanket, or if I need to remove it for overnight warming.

Actually, a battery maintainer will keep the battery warm also. Maybe not as warm as the blanket, but better than nothing. With the maintainer, you need to keep a close eye on the fluid level, however.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Scrivet » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:01 pm

Along with all the other things already mentioned if the gas has been sitting in the tank for awhile, like since last summer when you were done mowing, that can make it harder to start. Just dumping in a fresh five gallons won't really help at first since what's in the sediment bowl, fuel line, and carb have to be used up before the fresh stuff makes it's way to the engine. So slightly stale gas, a slightly weak spark, just a little low on compression, battery voltage down just a wee bit, etc. can combine to keep a Cub from starting when one or two of these may not even be noticed.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby geibes » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:07 pm

I have had cold weather starting issues in the past. What worked for me was putting a shop trouble light (the old incandesant/hot kind, not a new LED/cool kind) next to the oil pan for 15 minutes or so. Starts right up after that. Make sure you have the recommended winter oil first of course!
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby gusbratz » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:29 am

I have 2 cubs. my 6v cub with a new battery rolls so slow this time of year I am not even sure if it is going to get past compression stroke. then it takes off and runs. my 12v cub whips right over and starts great. I wish they were both 12v. if some purist wants to trade their 12v stuff for my 6v stuff I would love it.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby DickB » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:15 am

Not that I look forward to it, but just in case this year is a disaster with respect to cold weather starting...just what is involved in converting a 6 v. pos. ground / generator Cub over to 12 v.? What's involved in the parts, the work, the cost?

Thanks.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Eugene » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:36 am

DickB wrote:just what is involved in converting a 6 v. pos. ground / generator Cub over to 12 v.? What's involved in the parts, the work, the cost?
Search function, top of page. 800 and some posts on 12 volt alternator conversions. Following is one post providing some cost figures. Your actual cost may be about half of the estimate.

There are several posts on how to accomplish the conversion.

Jason_Coffey wrote:I converted mine to 12v because by the looks of the generator it wouldn't even make a good anchor and the wiring was awful. Now I just touch the starter and it fires up. 6v to 12v night and day in my opinion. I think it all cost me around $200. That covered the alternator, petronix kit, wires and fittings, resistor, coil, new bulbs, and a 12v light switch.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Denny Clayton » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:40 pm

DickB wrote:Not that I look forward to it, but just in case this year is a disaster with respect to cold weather starting...just what is involved in converting a 6 v. pos. ground / generator Cub over to 12 v.? What's involved in the parts, the work, the cost?

Thanks.

Dick, with everything you have plugged in and attached to your tractor, there is nothing short of a power outage or an empty gas tank to keep your Cub from starting. :shock: :lol:

My Cub, from 1955 and 6v and with a generator, is in the process of growing "winter coatings." I hope so. See if this makes sense or if it helps.

1. Battery: Charge it up and be prepared to recharge. This year I have on hand a wrap around heater with an electric line to it. My plan with a recharged battery is to have it wrapped, and plugged into a time to keep it warm.

2. Oil pan: Attach a magnetic oil pan heater to bottom of pan. Hook it up to the timer.

3. Water inlet pipe: Thanks to Boss Hog, I found and bought a used water inlet pipe that has a downward casting that is near the hose going toward the radiator. I drilled it, threaded it, and installed a plug heater. (I think Rudi has or will or was going to make this into a reference of some sort on this forum.) Plug it in, take it to the timer. (I keep hinting: Boss Hog sells these jobbies. It was his idea to use that little dribble of casting -- perhaps called a Welch port? -- for this purpose. If you want to do this, you need to be especially careful regarding the length of the copper "U" of the heater as too long is no good -- see either Rudi's link or my forum thread on this....

Set the timer to go on a couple of hours before you want to start your Cub, and to go off as you wander about in the snow toward it.

Reach over, and, as if it was summer, flip out the ignition, adjust your throttle, pull out the chock, and pull the starter. ROARing sound of energetic Cub on 1st or 2nd pull at 15 deg.F? Ahhhhhhh.

I found that the water heater is very nice, and I could put my hand on the engine head and it was warm after an hour of so of heating. Ahhhh. Did this little test in October. Now, I'm waiting for a snowstorm followed by a chilling cold front to test all this.

4. Remove all that stuff from the tractor, and get to plowing snow.

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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby danovercash » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:13 pm

Have you checked the brushes, bushings/bearings in the starter? If the starter needs attention 12 volts won't help for long. Do starter first, then decide if you need 12v.
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby DickB » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:40 pm

Thanks guys for the advice, comments. This winter will be the big test for all the stuff I've set up: oil pan heater, water heater, battery blanket/charger. Gas is good, starter's good. I sure don't want to redo the electric to 12v. Kind of like the old 6v. setup. So I've got my fingers in my down mittens crossed and my toes in the winter socks crossed too.

I'm hoping the originator of this thread go what was needed. I was just chiming in with what I do, and then asked a few questions....
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Re: time of year for me to get annoyed

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:27 pm

Don't forget stabilizer in the ethanol laced fuel.
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Re: time of year for me to get plowing

Postby plowman » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:48 pm

Last winter I hooked up a battery heat pad and stick-on oil pan warmer, and ran their plugs to a spot under the seat. I kept the battery warmer plugged in all the time (excepting of course that I unplugged it almost every time before driving off). The oil pan i plugged in only when snow was forecast or I had other tractor work planned. I used a thermostat plug between the power source and theses devices specced to turn on when temps went below 35F and then off when it went above 45F. Then I covered the whole Cub with a lightweight ATV cover.
With this setup it started as well as it ever has it the 53 years that my father and I have had it here in Massachusetts. It's a '53 6v. I sometimes think it is cheating a bit to have the plugins but it sure is nice to hop on, fire it up and start plowing. I do recommend unplugging before you start plowing, but that is another story.
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Re: time of year for me to get plowing

Postby Scrivet » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:05 pm

plowman wrote:Last winter I hooked up a battery heat pad and stick-on oil pan warmer, and ran their plugs to a spot under the seat. I kept the battery warmer plugged in all the time (excepting of course that I unplugged it almost every time before driving off). ............... I do recommend unplugging before you start plowing, but that is another story.
Hmmmmmm, you mention it twice, I wonder what could have happened here :lol: I'm thinking your driveway was just a tad longer than your extension cord. :D
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