Valve seats

[jonboy]

I've searched the site thoroughly and I'm getting conflicting info on valve seats as to where they are removable or not.

Does the C-60 have integral seats or are they replaceable? I've found the seats are available, but will this require cutting the counter bores or not? I do realize you can cut the counter bores in most integral engines to allow for replaceable seats. I'd prefer to just pop them out and install new hardened seats......

I didn't see anything in the International literature. All I have come up with so far in posts is generalizations based on how to remove and replace seats on other engines, or grind them until you can't anymore and then look for a used block.

I realize that most people wouldn't go to the trouble, but with an engine that makes little power to begin with, I'd like to see the valves and seats be in new condition, not reconditioned. My intention is to drive out the guides and seats and install all new valve train..........

Thanks in advance.

Jonboy

[Eugene]

Valve guides can be driven out and replaced.

Valve seats will have to be cut out/machined then new seats installed. Expensive.

Why not see if the current valve seats can be touched up/reconditioned?

[Smokeycub]

As far as I know the original seats are simply cut into the block's casting. Not a replaceable seat per se. The block can be machined to take hardened seats and as Eugene said, may be pricey.

I'd prefer to just pop them out and install new hardened seats......

I'm pretty sure they need to be sweated in, not just driven in, something I would prefer to have a machine shop do.

[jonboy]

Valve guides can be driven out and replaced.

Valve seats will have to be cut out/machined then new seats installed. Expensive.

Why not see if the current valve seats can be touched up/reconditioned?

Thanks Eugene, This motor is really pitted around the valves on two seats, but the rest can be saved. I noticed that the seats would not be supported all the way around if cut out and replaced. Does it look salvageable to you?

Jonboy

[jonboy]

As far as I know the original seats are simply cut into the block's casting. Not a replaceable seat per se. The block can be machined to take hardened seats and as Eugene said, may be pricey.

I'd prefer to just pop them out and install new hardened seats......

I'm pretty sure they need to be sweated in, not just driven in, something I would prefer to have a machine shop do.

Smokeycub, I've never heard of sweated in seats, but after looking over the support surface under the seat, you may be right unless the seats are really narrow to allow for some of the bottom of the seat to remain for support.

Jonboy

[jonboy]

I'm also concerned about the deck height after decking the block. It looks like it will take quite a bit to clean it up. I couldn't find the distance between top of the piston and the deck anywhere in the specs. I doubt someone makes a head gasket to compensate for the difference, but without seeing an original gasket I'd bet it's pretty thick. I don't mind raising the compression, but I don't want clearance problems.

Jonboy

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

if you have a good automotive machine shop in your area, take to them to evaluate. To install new seats they machine out a little bigger area than the original so they are well supported, and then insert the new ones. As to decking it, the shop will have to give you that info, because the best I remember, the pistons rise to flush with the head, and the clearance is in the head and gasket.

[ricky racer]

I had the head decked and hardened steel seats installed in the block on my '53 but I don't remember what it cost. I don't recall it being expensive and being the cheapskate that I am, if it was much, I'd have remembered.

[Eugene]

My opinion. Buy a complete running engine, then refresh or rebuild it. Or you can buy a running tractor in good condition with attachment(s) for about half the money you are going to spend rebuilding the pictured engine block. Gonna be way cheaper than all the machine work and new parts.

The verdict is in......It was the bull gears and the governor that had the motor locked, but there was some pitting that is too deep to hone out. I'm going to deck the block (trying to find piston to deck spec), bore and hone it to .030, change all the valve train, guides and seats, polish the crank, and then it should be good as new at twice the price of the whole tractor in 1952. At least I'll know this tractor and know what I have....

I'm going to deck the block, trying to find piston to deck spec.

Another machining operation, flat topped pistons can be machined to match the amount of material removed when decking the block.

[twotone]

I'm with Eugene on this one. When I rebuilt the engine on my 154, I never even measured the bores, and I have snap gauges and micrometers. It had standard pistons, so I ordered standard rings. I checked the ring end gap on one cylinder, it was within spec, so all pistons got installed. Same with main and rod bearings. I plastic gauged 1 rod and 1 main, they were within spec, so I installed all of them.

I removed all valves and sent the block to get boiled. Hand lapped the valves for assembly. When I installed the engine it fired up and the only smoke was from assembly lube. It cleared up right away and my really bad blowby problem was fixed as was the blue exhaust. The cylinders, pistons, and crank looked good, so no machine work. Rings, bearings, and a gasket set was my only cost. If I would have heard strange noises before teardown, I would have done what it took to repair.

I'm not ripping on you at all jonboy, I've brought things back from the dead, but it can be costly. I've dealt with Hamiltonbobs in the past, and he's the best. He could fix you up with good engine for way less than you'll have just in machine work. Whatever way you choose to go, I'm behind you 100%!!!

[Fireman Bob]

I always like to try to keep the "correct" engine with the tractor(that is if the numbers fall in the right range for the year) especially if the tractor has some special or sentimental value.
Unless that's the case with this one I agree with all here that a decent short block will be the lower cost /easier option.
From the picture it will need for sure a deck job,all valve seats and possible machining down of the pistons for clearance
Before throwing any money at it a hot tank and magnaflux to check for cracks would be a good option......may just be the light in the picture but possible hairline crack between the intake/exhaust valve seats in the center of the picture

[hurleyjd]

You might try bumper to bumper in Kilgore Texas they have a very good machine shop and know what they are doing. I was given an engine in about the same shape. We sleeved the engine and went back to original pistons. The pistons were used and furnished to me by Hamiltonsbobs who advertises on this website. I took the block, pistons, and head to him. The valve seats cleaned up with out valve seats being needed. He replaced the valve guides, polished the crank faced the head and decked the block. He furnished all parts which i think that the final cost was around $700. He also furnished the new valves. Tried to PM you but the sight said that we did not exist when I tried to submit the PM.I checked your area code and realized this shop would be available to you without much trouble. I also bought the head bolts used from Bob.

[ricky racer]

It all depends on what you want to do. The cheapest, easiest way to get a good running Cub is to buy one. A good runner will cost about $1500 in my area. If yours was a runner, although a weak runner, it would probably be worth maybe $1000 in my area. The difference is only $500 and you won't even have to pick up a wrench. Yours being a non-runner is probably worth, again in my area, around $500- $600 so it is now a $1000 upgrade to buy a good runner. Maybe a good running engine would be a good choice in that case. But how do you know that a engine sitting on a skid or laying on the ground somewhere is a good runner? Everyone will tell you it ran good when the motor was yanked out.

I spent somewhere north of $1200 to rebuild my '53 Cubs motor. I did all the work except the machine work on mine to keep the cost down. I have about $2500 total in my Cubs restoration but I went completely through it, front to back and know it is as good as any new Cub that ever came off the assembly line. I knew I was going to keep this Cub and didn't want something that I was going to have to tinker with every time I wanted to use it. I could have gone a cheaper route but have never regretted doing what I did and I smile every time I hop on it.

[Jack fowler]

ricky racer stated:I spent somewhere north of $1200 to rebuild my '53 Cubs motor. I did all the work except the machine work on mine to keep the cost down.

Same with me, new valve seats/valves/springs, bore/pistons, crankshaft resurface, ect. I have a good tractor, but I have more money in it than it’s worth. It’s a hard choice to make if you’re attached to the tractor…if not…I see a lot of good tractors for sale on this site.

I redid my tractor because of personal reasons and hopefully to travel to Cub events. Never had the time to travel…..hopefully that will change very soon so I can visit with the good people on this forum.

[ricky racer]

ricky racer stated:I spent somewhere north of $1200 to rebuild my '53 Cubs motor. I did all the work except the machine work on mine to keep the cost down.

Same with me, new valve seats/valves/springs, bore/pistons, crankshaft resurface, ect. I have a good tractor, but I have more money in it than it’s worth. It’s a hard choice to make if you’re attached to the tractor…if not…I see a lot of good tractors for sale on this site.

I redid my tractor because of personal reasons and hopefully to travel to Cub events. Never had the time to travel…..hopefully that will change very soon so I can visit with the good people on this forum.

I know what you mean. I said I had around $2500 in my Cub and it would be a stretch to think that I could ever sell my Cub for that amount of money, but it's not too far off of the mark. But then again, what else could I ever buy that will do what my Cub does as well as my Cub does for $2500???