Do IH implements have serial numbers ?

[Lee_Petrie]

I'll bet someone has a quick answer for my question ! Did IH stamp serial numbers on the implements they made and sold ? This summer I purchased two #185 single row planters , and the woman I purchased them from at a "resale shop" said they were one of the first 185 planters that were made ! The thought came to mind , if they were not serial numbered , how would the selling IH dealer warrantee the implement against early defects ? My planters might have serial numbers , where would I start looking, it did have an IH part number stamped on the framing , ending in R1, as I remember ! Serial numbers or not , on their 27 different implements ?
Thanks for your help, Lee Petrie, Joliet, Il.

[Super A]

I'll bet someone has a quick answer for my question ! Did IH stamp serial numbers on the implements they made and sold ? This summer I purchased two #185 single row planters , and the woman I purchased them from at a "resale shop" said they were one of the first 185 planters that were made ! The thought came to mind , if they were not serial numbered , how would the selling IH dealer warrantee the implement against early defects ? My planters might have serial numbers , where would I start looking, it did have an IH part number stamped on the framing , ending in R1, as I remember ! Serial numbers or not , on their 27 different implements ?
Thanks for your help, Lee Petrie, Joliet, Il.

As far as Cub implements go, I don't think they did.

Al

[PoconoCub]

I found this tag on my 54 plow/grader frame, not sure if it has a serial number on it as the left side still has paint on it. One day I will try to clean it up and see what is under the paint.

IMG_0861-2.jpg (106.81 KiB) Viewed 680 times

[Lee_Petrie]

Maybe I'll never know IF my # 185 IH planters , which probably were made at the IH Canton Works plant , 20 miles away from the "resale shop" where I purchased them , were "one of the first "off" the line or NOT !
"IF their was NO serial numbers on the implements, how I could you get the correct replacement part , without knowing the "mod. level" it was at, even more important on the large implements , like the 100 spreader ( just tell the IH parts man (or woman) it is a small red IH 100 spreader, made with all the mod's done "on the fly" ( as Jim Becker referred to, in his wonderful "walking tour" )! Another problem, a 100 spreader needing warrantee work done, at the dealer, yours might be 6 months old but you brought in the neighbor's 3 year old unit , for "free" warrantee work !
Without serial numbers , this appears to be a real issue , thank for all of the inputs on my "post" , Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL

[Super A]

The earlier implements were broke down by "year" in the parts book. For example a "1948" planter might be a little different than the same model planter built in 1950. Yes, you had to know the year it was made, but apparently IH meant for that system to be used instead of serial numbers.

Bigger implements like combines had serial numbers.

Al

[Matt Kirsch]

That year system is not how they did it. There is no identification as to what year any given implement is, and it would be unrealistic to expect the farmer to remember.

What they used were the part numbers. IH used a couple different systems over the years for part numbering that included revisioning so that if there were some sort of incompatibility you would order the correct replacement based on part number.

Show-stopping incompatibility was rare, as newer revision parts were almost always backward-compatible and direct bolt-ins.

[Super A]

That year system is not how they did it. There is no identification as to what year any given implement is, and it would be unrealistic to expect the farmer to remember.

What they used were the part numbers. IH used a couple different systems over the years for part numbering that included revisioning so that if there were some sort of incompatibility you would order the correct replacement based on part number.

Show-stopping incompatibility was rare, as newer revision parts were almost always backward-compatible and direct bolt-ins.

I would have been more correct to say year and part number updates (R1, R2 for the next revision, R3 for the next revision, etc) was what they used. I have always assumed that the production years were for the partsman's use. For that matter, so are part numbers. Most farmers didn't have a parts book.

When I was growing up, I was always told "take the old one with you" to help make sure we got the right part.

Al

[Lee_Petrie]

Thanks for your thoughts , Matt & Super A ,
But getting back to "the basics" , and as Jim Becker admitted in his latest "walk-thru" , production changes were often made "on the fly" ! For that reason , in the Cub parts book, it would state from serial number xxxxx down use this part number and from serial number xxxx (+1more) , use this part number, to me that would mean a production change , mid-year , "on the fly" ! So in my mind, it is not just a R1 or R2 , it might be an entirely different part number, designed and shaped differently, as Jim stated, was the fact in the "front mounted, drawbar , used with the fasthitch , then the entire part was changed when the depth control was changed to a crank from the handle, for clearance reasons, maybe again on " the fly" !
Thanks again, for everybody's thoughts, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.

[Scrivet]

I think you are making a couple assumptions based on todays practices that weren't necessarily so 50-60 years ago.

It was a smaller world back then and the good IH dealer knew his customers and what he sold them and how long ago. Maybe you've heard of it, CUSTOMER SERVICE I think it was called. He also new most everybody and what type of person they were. I'm sure there were a few who tried to cheat the system but the majority of folks were a little more honest acording to conventional wisdom.

Very doubtful that much of anything was "brought in" unless it was a big job like an engine overhaul. It would be fixed onsite with the mechanic coming to the machine.

A six month old machine would show different wear than a three year old one.

Lots of machines used/could use the same parts (Say a 1947 Cub and a 1977 Cub) so it didn't really matter much.

The customer didn't have to know that is was 100 spreader with which "on the fly" changes that had been done. The mechanic did and he had the bulletins telling him what they were. (Actually this one is still practiced today on new cars, the one you buy made early in the year may not be EXACTLY like the one you buy that was made the end of the model year.)

I also think that there would have been a very small number of "Parts Women" fifty or sixty years ago. Adding/having to add that statement is just another difference in the way we think today as compared to back then. It's just a product of our heightened political correctness we have today. Whether that is good or bad isn't the point, but the fact that it wasn't even considered then and is practically required now is the point. It's a difference of times.

[Eugene]

My grandparents, up until they left the farm in 1962, kept a ledger with make, model, and serial number if applicable of all the farm machinery inventory. Also included was common parts for the machines, probably obtained from previous purchases.

I'm fairly sure that farm machinery as well as livestock and inventory of grain, feed stock, machinery had to be included on tax forms. The point is, farmers knew what they owned.

[Jim Becker]

Scrivet pretty well covered things.

Very few IH implements got serial numbers, usually big stuff like combines. IH quit putting then on some machines as they found it not worth the trouble. Serial number breaks are common in tractor parts catalogs. Implement parts catalogs show a change by year once in a while, but not often. You can see one example for the Cub-3 as shown in the first image below. A parts man would usually deal with something like this by turning the catalog towards the customer and asking which one his machine looked like. Complicating the year question is the fact that many machines (tractors as well as implements) were held over for some period of time from manufacture to final sale. Just because a farmer bought it in 1948, doesn't mean it was built in 1948. If something changed that was backward compatible, the parts catalog was usually updated to show only the latest version, often listing that it replaces an earlier part and showing the old part number. If a change wasn't backward compatible, the updated catalog would usually show both versions.

Potentially more complicated than the changes was the multiplicity of versions available. Look at the second image here. You need knife sections for your Cub-22 mower? Check reference number 7. There are three listed (and the dealer had more choices that weren't on this page). The customer had to know what he wanted (or like Al, bring in an old one). Image 3 is another good example of alternate equipment.

[Lee_Petrie]

A very special "thanks", to all that added to my post, including the lengthy post replies by Jim Becker and Scivet ! With those "very detailed " insights of life on the farm , and the services given by the local ,dedicated IH team , the knowledgeable forum members have spoken ! I personally have never owned or even worked on a farm during those great IH days, but the "bottom line" still exists , what came to be , can not be disputed , everybody made the best out of what they had to work with !
Personally , I'm 71, spent most of my working years at The National Cash Register Co. ( NCR ) , servicing their equipment , from the brass marvels to the electronic challenges of the '90 's , when I retired , bottom line, everything had serial numbers , reconditioned units had their own set of serial numbers , along with the "service bulletins" and service meetings to discuss problem areas ! That was the "customer service", that I always expressed to my "customers" !
The FINAL notes and thought are down in writing , for all to see, in the IH history, I still feel, with a "serial numbering system" on their implement line being used , life would have much easier and less confusing !
What happened back then , went down in the history books , thank goodness for the quality of their product line, so we can enjoy them today ! Thanks again, to all for reading and sharing their thoughts, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.

[Jim Becker]

Keep in mind that back in the '40s, '50s and beyond, these sorts of records were not computerized. The sort of serial number information you describe for a cash register would have been larger than the machine itself if it was all hand written on build sheets. To do it for every machine IH delivered (even if the data were for large contiguous blocks of serial numbers) would have generated so much paper that actually finding information would have been impractical if not impossible.

Here is a bit of trivia for you: As of February 1985, a list of IH part numbers cross referenced to the parts catalogs they were listed in would have taken 11,726 pages, if printed. This is a reference only to the catalog(s) the part could be found in. A list of which machine models, much less serial number effectivity, would have been much larger.

Now days, car manufacturers keep very detailed configuration records. Years ago we would see something like a couple hundred thousand cars being recalled so they could find the one batch of maybe 200 light switches. Now, the recalls will usually be announced as effecting cars from one factory built during some two or three week period, and they send a letter to exactly the 200 owners that have the defective part. (When they actually have 200,000 defective parts is another story!)

[danovercash]

My fast hitch blade has that same serial plate . It has 100 in front of the U-1111.

[Lee_Petrie]

Hello Jim, I TRUELY see your point(s) on the serial number issues , somewhere in the house , I've got serial number lists for cash registers back before 1900 , then their was a list of reconditioned machine serial numbers ( done at the factory) ! Attached is my list of the serial numbers of all the NEW NCR equipment , the point I'm trying to make , "IF" IH wanted a running serial number list of implements , it could have been done , just maybe it was to IH Corp advantage ,not done for a purpose ! For example, if they knew a 100 spreader was dated a '51 , it probably would sell for less than a newer model 100 , so not knowing the age of the used equipment, would have its advantage ! Another example, which would have a better resale (in its day) a '51 or a '55 Cub, they have serial numbers and their age is a known fact !
Thanks for listening to my points, I'm NOT arguing with you Jim , your knowledge of IH/Cub, is the greatest, but just maybe, their was reasoning for the non-serializing of the implements, not just extra "paper work", Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.