Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

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PVF1799
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Tractors Owned: 1929 Farmall Regular (Original Owner)
1942 Farmall M #55654
1948 Farmall Cub #21005
1955 Farmall Cub #190769
1961 Cub Cadet #16509
1975 Cub Cadet 1250H
197x IH 990 Haybine
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Attachments: Woods 42F Fast Hitch, L38 Disc Fast Hitch, F11 Plow Fast Hitch, Land Plow, Snow Plow, Grader Blade, Planter w/Fertilizer, Cultivators, Hilling Disks, Sickle Bar Mower(2), IH 7' Sickle Bar Mower, Flail Mower and 5' International Belly Mower.
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Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby PVF1799 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:27 am

All excited that my package from Brillman had my new VR in it. Now keep in mind - I searched Brillman for Cub - Charging system - selected 6V Saddle Mount what I thought was a VR - It arrives and. It's described as A Saddle Mount - Cut-Out Relay. It has a BAT and GEN Terminal ONLY - THERE IS NO F TERMINAL ON THE VR. GIVEN THIS WHERE DOES THE GENERATOR F TERMINAL GET WIRED TO. IS THIS EVERN THE RIGHT PART?

Brillman only lists Saddle mount VR's that are 12V Saddle Mount, where there is a FIELD Terminal on the VR. This is all very confusing to a 6V Rookie.

Ken
Ken
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My Restoration Project - FCUB '48 - Rex

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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby ShineOn » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:02 am

Sounds like a Cut Out Relay Neighbor .

I've little experience in tractor parts but lots in 1930-60 motorcycles , many of which used cut outs .

( NOTE : I wonder if the early Sportster square relays could be adjusted to adapt ? )
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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:11 am

It would help if you told us what cutout you have. Brillman lists at least 3 different ones and we can't tell what you have in your hands. I assume you have his part R623C, which is about as close to correct as I see on his web page. If it is that one and your tractor has a headlight switch, lack of that lug shouldn't be a problem. If you follow the original wiring diagram, nothing connects there anyway.

I don't see a saddle mount 6-volt regulator on his site either.

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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby ShineOn » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:23 am

Dog gone it . I'd bet most any mechanical VR1814 positive ground regulator would work , given the proper point adjustments . The spring rates were pretty universal as I recall . About the only "uniqueness" was mounting brackets .

( You Neighbors are bringing back my memory ! )
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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby Scrivet » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:23 am

It's time to figure out if this tractor is going to be SAE or Metric. :lol: You were, as I recall, trying to wire up a voltage regulator as a cutout previously. Just go back to the Brillman wiring diagram you had (that one was for a cutout), and follow those directions as you now have what you thought you had then. (As Jim said subject to not knowing exactly what you have)

So with the cutout, it's back to actually using the first two positions of the LHDB switch as the generator charging control from the F terminal. Look at the "Farmer Bob" diagram for a cutout, Generator F terminal goes to the "extra" resistor on the back of the light switch and you manually control the charge rate.

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PVF1799
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Tractors Owned: 1929 Farmall Regular (Original Owner)
1942 Farmall M #55654
1948 Farmall Cub #21005
1955 Farmall Cub #190769
1961 Cub Cadet #16509
1975 Cub Cadet 1250H
197x IH 990 Haybine
1994 JD 5320 Diesel
Attachments: Woods 42F Fast Hitch, L38 Disc Fast Hitch, F11 Plow Fast Hitch, Land Plow, Snow Plow, Grader Blade, Planter w/Fertilizer, Cultivators, Hilling Disks, Sickle Bar Mower(2), IH 7' Sickle Bar Mower, Flail Mower and 5' International Belly Mower.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Altamont, NY

Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby PVF1799 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:26 pm

Here is what was ordered by search for IHC/Cub

What Scrivet says makes sense - since my Cub has L and H settings and the resistor coil and because Brillman States " this is the correct harness for a 48 Cub - where by the Generator F goes to the switch at the resistor. This too must be the correct "Cutout Relay" - At some point since 1965 someone "Dad" changed it to a Voltage Regulator and thusly needed to change the wiring.

Your Thoughts?

Ken
Ken
Pleasant View Farm - Est. 1799
My Restoration Project - FCUB '48 - Rex

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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby Scrivet » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:22 pm

As long as your generator has the holes to put screws for the saddle I'd use what you have. The harness and cutout are "original" and can always be changed, by a little rewiring, to a regulator anytime in the future.

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PVF1799
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Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:46 pm
Zip Code: 12009
eBay ID: kepara
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Tractors Owned: 1929 Farmall Regular (Original Owner)
1942 Farmall M #55654
1948 Farmall Cub #21005
1955 Farmall Cub #190769
1961 Cub Cadet #16509
1975 Cub Cadet 1250H
197x IH 990 Haybine
1994 JD 5320 Diesel
Attachments: Woods 42F Fast Hitch, L38 Disc Fast Hitch, F11 Plow Fast Hitch, Land Plow, Snow Plow, Grader Blade, Planter w/Fertilizer, Cultivators, Hilling Disks, Sickle Bar Mower(2), IH 7' Sickle Bar Mower, Flail Mower and 5' International Belly Mower.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Altamont, NY

Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby PVF1799 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:55 am

Last Question - I promise.

If it charges 2.5 to 4 amps on High Charge - But Discharges on Low Charge Does that mean the resistance coil is bad? Or does it simply mean that right now my battery needs a high charge? I hope you all can excuse my lack of understanding - this system has NEVER been original until now so I'm unclear what to expect or how this is supposed to work in the field.

:thanx: :thanx: :thanx: Ken
Ken
Pleasant View Farm - Est. 1799
My Restoration Project - FCUB '48 - Rex

Jim Becker
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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:56 am

First off, where is the needle on your ammeter pointing when there is no current? Many of them are not well centered. With everything off, where does the needle point? Wherever that is, that is 0. For example,, if it says minus 3 when off, a reading of 4 really is 7.

I assume your 2.5 to 4 reading is with the engine running at fast idle. It won't charge unless the speed is up.

One more assumption, you have all your connections and grounds cleaned up. This includes the ground of the light switch to the panel.

Given all the above, on low charge it should show plus 2 amps or so. On high charge it should show about 11 amps. If it doesn't, try adjusting the third brush in the generator. Take the band off the generator. You should find a screw into the back side of the generator (usually looks like the head of a stove bolt). Loosen the screw a couple turns (no more than!). Reach in through the opening where the band was and rotate the holder for the third brush. Moving it closer to the nearest main brush will increase the output. You can push the carrier with a screwdriver or similar. If you use a tool that conducts electricity, do it with the engine off, check the results, readjust as needed. Tighten the screw on the back side and put the band back on.

User avatar
PVF1799
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:46 pm
Zip Code: 12009
eBay ID: kepara
Skype Name: ken.rau.57
Tractors Owned: 1929 Farmall Regular (Original Owner)
1942 Farmall M #55654
1948 Farmall Cub #21005
1955 Farmall Cub #190769
1961 Cub Cadet #16509
1975 Cub Cadet 1250H
197x IH 990 Haybine
1994 JD 5320 Diesel
Attachments: Woods 42F Fast Hitch, L38 Disc Fast Hitch, F11 Plow Fast Hitch, Land Plow, Snow Plow, Grader Blade, Planter w/Fertilizer, Cultivators, Hilling Disks, Sickle Bar Mower(2), IH 7' Sickle Bar Mower, Flail Mower and 5' International Belly Mower.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Altamont, NY

Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby PVF1799 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:38 pm

Jim Becker wrote:First off, where is the needle on your ammeter pointing when there is no current? Many of them are not well centered. With everything off, where does the needle point? Wherever that is, that is 0. For example,, if it says minus 3 when off, a reading of 4 really is 7.

I assume your 2.5 to 4 reading is with the engine running at fast idle. It won't charge unless the speed is up.

One more assumption, you have all your connections and grounds cleaned up. This includes the ground of the light switch to the panel.

Given all the above, on low charge it should show plus 2 amps or so. On high charge it should show about 11 amps. If it doesn't, try adjusting the third brush in the generator. Take the band off the generator. You should find a screw into the back side of the generator (usually looks like the head of a stove bolt). Loosen the screw a couple turns (no more than!). Reach in through the opening where the band was and rotate the holder for the third brush. Moving it closer to the nearest main brush will increase the output. You can push the carrier with a screwdriver or similar. If you use a tool that conducts electricity, do it with the engine off, check the results, readjust as needed. Tighten the screw on the back side and put the band back on.


New Gauge - Reads Zero When Off.
Reading of 2.5 - 4 is at a fast idle to maybe mid throttle.
Grounding could clearly be an issue because everything was painted separately. I will check. Only after the grounds are cleaned up will I work on the brushes.
Ken
Pleasant View Farm - Est. 1799
My Restoration Project - FCUB '48 - Rex

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Re: Will the Real Voltage Regulator Please Stand Up?

Postby tst » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:33 pm

use a real amp meter to test with, most of those "new" amp gauges are made in india, same place as the junk regulators which are mostly bad, as Jim mentioned good grounds, all the fresh paint can ruin a good ground


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