Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

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Scout
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
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Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:35 am

Hi Gents,

Attempted to start my garage kept 1948 Cub this morning.

Like I always do, I start her up every few weeks during the winter. Full choke, fully charged battery and about 30 degrees here today. - but as she turns over, attempting to start, fuel is leaking, literally dripping from and around the carburetor.

I have not seen or experienced anything like this before. I read several posts, courtesy of H.L. Chauvin (thank you), but I did not see a post similar to what I experienced today.

Looking for your thoughts. Is this a sign that a carb rebuild is necessary, a new carb or just a good carb cleaning?

Thank you!

Scout
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem - Ronald Regan

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raystractors
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby raystractors » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:11 pm

It sounds like the needle valve has gotten stuck. That is a common problem with the cub carb. If you have seen many of the old carbs you would have seen the way they would try to cure this problem, they would bang on the side of the carb until the valve would close or not. You can clean up your carb and save a lot of the trouble that would come from the bang fix. If you are very careful you may get by without any parts, but if the carb has not been rebuilt in years the gasket will more than likely break. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

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Don McCombs
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:19 pm

Sounds pretty normal in a "no start" situation. Try starting with no choke. If that doesn't help, start with no choke then close the choke momentarily. Let us know how you make out.
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Scout
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Zip Code: 10527
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
Location: Westchester, NY/Fairfield County, CT

Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:52 pm

Thanks for the fast reply Don/Ray!

Don - No dice, made no difference. Cub did not start and gasoline was dripping out, seemingly from and all around the carburetor.

Ray - Appreciate you steering me away from the "bang technique". Looks like a good cleaning is in order. Will plan a day where I have some time to remove and clean the carb and give it another try, then update this post.

Posted a picture of our 48', albeit when the weather was a bit warmer!

Thank you!

Scout
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1948 FAC.JPG
1948 FAC.JPG (37.27 KiB) Viewed 508 times
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Don McCombs
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:18 pm

OK. Let me ask a few questions to assist with the diagnosis. Do you normally shut the fuel off when shutting the tractor down after running? Have you done any work on the carb, and know whether the float needle is steel or has a Viton (rubber) tip?
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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:22 pm

the dripping out all around sounds like some dirt under the float valve, sounds like it is time to remove carb, then float, and clear the valve that rests on the float.
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Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 pm
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:34 pm

Thanks John.

Believe all signs point to this approach.

The attached shows the opening, on the base of the carburetor body, where fuel simply pours when I attempt a start.
Attachments
1948 FAC CARB.JPG
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Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem - Ronald Regan

Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 pm
Zip Code: 10527
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
Location: Westchester, NY/Fairfield County, CT

Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:41 pm

Thanks Don.

I always close the fuel shut off valve when shutting down the tractor after running.

I have not done any work on the carburetor and thus, do not know if the float needle is steel or rubber tipped.

Thank you for helping to diagnose - she's purred like a kitten and starts every time - figured tampering/removing/cleaning the carb was asking for trouble.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem - Ronald Regan

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Don McCombs
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:40 pm

Does it start leaking as soon as you open the fuel valve? If so, it's probably a sticking needle as the others have said. Don't fear opening the carb to take a look. But, be very careful when you pull the two halves apart. Pull them straight apart, slowly and gently. The idle tube, that runs between the two halves is very fragile. You'll want to have a new bowl gasket on hand for when you reassemble. Get one from your local CaseIH dealer. They are the best. If the needle is Viton tipped, I would replace it and the seat with one of these. They are a matched set.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/5183fp.htm

They are also available from your CaseIH dealer or TM Tractor Parts at the link.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 pm
Zip Code: 10527
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
Location: Westchester, NY/Fairfield County, CT

Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:09 pm

Thanks Don - there is no leaking when I open the fuel valve.

The leaking starts when I attempt to start/turn over the Cub. The engine turns over and sometimes, it sounds like its catching, but as the engine is turning over, fuel drips out of and around the carburetor.

Anything else I should try to rule out one cause or another?

I really appreciate the time and guidance, you and other members are providing. I'll get the Cub going, but this is a great learning opportunity; for me and perhaps others reading this forum!
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem - Ronald Regan

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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby challenger » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:28 pm

Pull the air cleaner hose off at the carb, look in the throat and make sure the choke butterfly is all the way open (on the horizontal) when your choke rod is pushed all the way in. If not, the choke arm on the choke butterfly shaft may have slipped and needs to be adjusted and tightened.

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Don McCombs
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:36 pm

Interesting. As I mentioned earlier, it is normal for excess fuel to drip out of the carb in a "non start" situation, because of the updraft type of carburetor/manifold on the Cub. You indicated that the tractor has never done this before. Even in a previous "non-start" situation? One last question (maybe :D ). With the fuel valve open, does the leak stop if you stop cranking?
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 pm
Zip Code: 10527
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (!)
Location: Westchester, NY/Fairfield County, CT

Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Scout » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:59 pm

Don,

I usually start her standing on the right side of the tractor, facing forward. I reach to the left for choke then pull the starter rod from the right side.

So while I could not see the carb, I would notice what appeared to be a drop or two of gas on my driveway after a start, but that was about the extent of any fuel leak.

Even after cranking, fuel drips (this afternoon, it became more of a flow", mostly now from the base of the carb body (see previously attached photo).

Since owning this cub (about one year), save one instance with a bad ground, she has just about always started on the first attempt and do not recall any previous "non-start" situation.

Challenger - will give that a look tomorrow and update this post.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem - Ronald Regan

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Don McCombs
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1948 Farmall Super A
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Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:29 pm

Again, I feel that what you're experiencing with the fuel "leak" is perfectly normal. No cause to be concerned. Now, we have to figure out why the tractor won't start. It's possible, if you're just starting the tractor and letting it idle for short periods of time, that the spark plugs may be fouled. The other possibility is that the ignition points are glazed over from sitting for long periods. As for the first, clean or, preferably, replace the plugs. Be sure to check the gap before installing. For the points, remove the distributor cap and run a piece of brown paper bag back and forth between the points (some use a crisp dollar bill) to polish them up. Alternatively, you could run an ignition file, lightly, between the points. Check the inside of the cap for moisture while you have it off. There are other unlikely possibilities, like valves and timing, but let's start with the ignition first.
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Re: Carb Leaking Like A Sive!

Postby Denny Clayton » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Try starting the tractor before opening the fuel valve. Perhaps it will start before the fuel comes pouring thru.
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