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1958 Cub Wagner Loader

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LeoM
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1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
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1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:13 pm

I recently purchased a 1958 Cub with a Wagner loader. All the hydraulic hoses were rotted and broken. When I moved the bucket by hand some hydraulic fluid leaked out and is contaminated with water, milky white in color. I have not attempted to start the engine and don't want make a bad situation worse. Any suggestions on how to flush and restore the hydraulic system will be greatly appreciated.

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Eugene
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Eugene » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:54 am

Gonna be expensive.

Drain the reservoir. Remove and replace the hoses. Fill reservoir with hy-tran or equivalent. Cycle the system a number to times. Top off the system.

I would use the loader for a season then replace the hydraulic oil.

Edit: Check with your local auto parts stores, some make up hydraulic hoses.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Don McCombs
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Don McCombs » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:14 am

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that you get the tractor running well before investing any money in the loader. Unless, of course, that you're going to use the loader on a different tractor.
Don McCombs
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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:14 pm

It would help to know what model loader, and if it uses the touch control or has it's own pump. either way, you are going to need to drain everything. Remove3 cylinders, and turn with the fitting down, then shove the rams all the way in. pull them back out a ways and let set with the drain down, then shove in again. Drain reservoir, lines to laves, and touch control (rod retracted) and let it all set and drip a while. I had that problem with mine, and in spite of everything I did, I had to fill it and run a while then drain again 3 times before I got rid of all my water, and I did not have the touch control to deal with. One problem with mine is that the bottom line did not come out of the bottom of the reservoir so there was always some oil and water left. For the first refill or two you might want to use a universal hydraulic and transmission oil, then use actual HyTran for the last fill to save some money.
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Harold R » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:49 pm

If the tractor has issues, it's very hard to get at things with the loader mounted. I'd remove the loader first. It will be easier to work on both.

LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:31 pm

The Model # is H 800-70 serial #92139.


I was thinking it might be easier to remove it and work separately. We shall see.

LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:34 pm

It does use the Touch Control. No Separate pump.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:05 pm

The water will also be in the touch control, since they share the same supply, just routes the oil through the valve and to the pistons rather than to the TC. You said you needed new hoses anyway, so you will need to drain the Loader reservoir, then remove the hoses and get as much of the old oil out as possible. Likewise drain and flush touch control then reconnect loader.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:00 am

Web searches for manuals for this model, H 800-70, only find Ford 800 which structurally looks very different. I am curious because the loader reservoir interferes with the gas cap. Someone modified the cap with a hammer which gives enough clearance to remove it but just raises a question in my mind, is this the correct model for a Cub ?

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Barnyard
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Barnyard » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:23 am

Leo, if you post some pix we could see if it fits right.
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.

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Barnyard
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Barnyard » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:33 pm

I did a little looking for something else and found this along the way.
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20 ... Loader.htm
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.

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LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:26 pm

That's it. The one I have may have been for a standard cub and been cut and welded to fit the LoBoy. I will try to get some pictures where it looks like it was modified.
You da man. Where did you find this manual ?

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Barnyard
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
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2 IH Cubs (Square Hood)
5 Lo-Boys (Round Hood)
2 Lo-Boys (Square Hood)
2 Farmall 404's
1 Farmall H
1 Ferguson 20
1 Cub Cadet 125
1 Kubota B-7100
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH, New Haven (Hamilton County)
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Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby Barnyard » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:46 pm

Leo, it should not have been cut to fit. They should fit either. I found it in the manual section.
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.

Circle of Safety

LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:45 am

If you look on page 5 at illustration 7 and on page 6 at illustration 8 where the loader frame attaches to the final drive you can see the difference. The LoBoy final drive is rolled about 90 deg. CCW compared to the standard Cub for ground clearance. Illustration 8 shows between item number 1 and item number 5 there are 2 additional plates to make up the difference in frame length. Illustration 7 does not have these plates.
This deepens the mystery about the weld on my frame. It is located at the base of the frame where item number 3 (item number 5 in illustration 8) attaches to the frame. It is substantial and doesn't look like factory work. If this loader was originally for a standard cub you could just delete the 2 additional plates shown in illustration 8. It wouldn't require additional welding. Hmmmm ???
Anyway I got all the hydraulic lines removed today and took them to a shop to get replaced. I took the control block as well to have it gone through. There was very little oil in either reservoir but what was there was clean. It appears that the nasty oil I saw was just in the lines where they had been broken and exposed to the elements. I will still give it a thorough flush.

LeoM
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm
Zip Code: 32713
Tractors Owned: FARMALL FORUM
1966 Cub w/ IH 1000 Loader
1958 LoBoy w/ Wagner 45 Loader
1952 Cub w/ Woods 48" Bush Hog
1948 Super A w/ Finish Mower
1944 A w/ 3 Point Hitch
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Central Florida

Re: 1958 Cub Wagner Loader

Postby LeoM » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:49 am

that is (Item number 5 in illustration 8.) I fat fingered that smiley face


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