oil is breaking down in '50 cub

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flipklos
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oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby flipklos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:44 pm

Does anyone else have the issue with the oil breaking down and getting thin in their cub?

15W-40 rotella has never given me any issues in the past with this and I have run it in every vehicle made before efi.

Took the temp on the filter housing and pan last night after an hour of HARD mowing and got 230f on the housing and 193 on the pan. A tad high but not crazy?

It don't seem to be loosing hytran or smell like gas so I am at a bit of a loss on this other than thermal breakdown.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby ricky racer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:22 pm

That's hot!! What shape is the radiator in?
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby flipklos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:56 pm

Radiator was new when engine was overhauled two years ago.

The temp on the outlet was 217 and on the return was 168.

On a thermosyphon system that seems to be ok to me a flathead ford with pumps will toss 230+ out after I get home with a load of gravel so that is OK in my eyes.

Oil in the pan at 190 is not super unusual to me a tad hot but anything under 200 is operable in my mind but would be happier at about 180ish.

Mind you I was cutting hip high grass with a woods 59. The whole time it was pegged against the governor and lugging. It did die on me three times as well.

This was for a bit over an hour so the old beast was pounding hard!

The oil in this thing always seems to get runny like this and I have used Rotella for years in many different applications with no issue such as this. I think I will drain it and replace it again but if the issue persists I will have to try a synthetic or a blend.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:18 am

flipklos wrote:........
Mind you I was cutting hip high grass with a woods 59. The whole time it was pegged against the governor and lugging. It did die on me three times as well.

This was for a bit over an hour so the old beast was pounding hard!.......
Doing that kind of cutting, you need to check the radiator for the fins being plugged with seeds, etc. I have had that happen to me.
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby BigBill » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:35 am

15_40wt oil its a 15wt oil with the lubricating quality of a 40wt oil. I use 15-40wt mobil delvac for cutting lawns. If I was going to use my tractor for severe use id go with the straight 30wt.
Maybe a sickle bar is in order for taller grass? your working it hard.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby havoc1482 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:20 am

BigBill wrote:15_40wt oil its a 15wt oil with the lubricating quality of a 40wt oil. I use 15-40wt mobil delvac for cutting lawns. If I was going to use my tractor for severe use id go with the straight 30wt.
Maybe a sickle bar is in order for taller grass? your working it hard.


What 15W-40 means is that it has the viscosity of a 15 weight at cold temps and a 40 at warm (engine) temps.

The W means "Winter"
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby flipklos » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:08 pm

A sickle mower would be the ideal mower for what I was doing. I normaly do not mow there. I use the woods to mow my yard and the occasional lazy neighbors to make a point. The city usualy mows but has not this year as it is a path to a fishing spot and has been wet most of this spring. A fisherman neighbor asked me to do it and I agreed.
Even on my yard the oil gets thin. I rarely use straight 30 as I have seen that turn into water in more than one pushmower. Actualy except for my antiques and tractors I use Napa synthetic in everything, The lack of zinc in modern oils is the only thing holding me back on my older junk.

Never seen Rotella break down like this.............

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:49 am

flipklos wrote: The lack of zinc in modern oils is the only thing holding me back on my older junk.

Any modern oil has enough of zinc for the older junk.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby Clark Thompson » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:26 pm

around 190 deg at the oil pan is about normal after being used hard. actually oil will boil in the pan as your using the engine hard. I doubt the oil is braking down I suspect it is getting thin with heat which is normal. I have a 76 IH cub tractor that has a woods 59 on it. I regularly use it very hard to cut 5 acres of grass over a foot tall and sometime hay like very thick. I run the engine at 2600 most times in second gear till the belt slips on the mower and then in first. so you get the idea of how hard i use it. I run 50 wt Pennzoil racing oil for the past 10 years and have no problem with oil pressure or overheating. And yes I have done some things to the engine to be able to run it that hard. :{_}:
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby flipklos » Wed May 25, 2016 9:40 pm

Ok,

It is almost a year later but I am finaly going to try this.

I am going to switch from good old 15W-40 Rotella to the T6 synthetic 5W-40.

The theory is that thinner oil sucks heat away faster and lets it out of the system better. Synthetic is just more breakdown resistant and I know of no other 5W-40 oil.

I will mow three more times with the conventional oil and take temps of the coolant outlet, coolant return, and oil pan. I will get the humidity and temp outside as well. Then I will mow thrice with the synthetic oil and do the same. I want to see if there is any difference as the oil is already thining out and it has not even got hot out yet.


BTW- it is not getting thin due to hydro oil or gasoline. I find nothing indicative of this being the case.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed May 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Have you by chance been having to add hydraulic oil from time to time? If so your pump is probably leaking it into the crankcase and contaminating the oil.
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby flipklos » Wed May 25, 2016 10:30 pm

No, I mentioned that at the end of my post. No change in hydraulic fluid level. No smell of gas.

Oil was fine all winter long. I know this sounds nuts but this stuff is getting thin in a cub!

A hot running flathead ford don't thin it out. No a weezebag little cub slays the might of shell.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby Eugene » Thu May 26, 2016 6:57 am

flipklos wrote:Radiator was new when engine was overhauled two years ago. The temp on the outlet was 217 and on the return was 168.
217 degrees seems quite high if the temperature was taken at the coolant manifold on top of the engine block. I would think that the radiator would be steaming or boiling over. Perhaps I don't understand where the temperature was taken.

Did you stick a thermometer in the coolant at the top of the radiator to check the coolant temperature?

Did you flush out the engine block to remove scale and crud when you replaced the radiator?

Does your tractor maintain oil pressure when up to operating temperature?

I'm not sure you have an oil thinning problem. My standard Cub, cold engine start up, oil pressure gauge almost pegs out on the high side. After the engine warms up the oil pressure gauge shows a pressure drop to the middle of the gauge at high engine idle. Hot engine, low engine idle, the oil pressure gauge indicates just above the red zone.

Edit. How did you determine that you have an oil thinning problem?
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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby JohnMihevic » Thu May 26, 2016 7:10 am

You mention going to synthetic. Has anyone done this on an old cub? I was considering changing but was worried that the crankshaft end seals might start leaking.

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Re: oil is breaking down in '50 cub

Postby bob in CT » Thu May 26, 2016 7:17 am

Send a sample of the oil out for analysis. I would flush the block with a power washer. Download GS1411 service manual if you have not done so already for details. http://www.farmallcub.com/[ Sorry, direct links to manual section is not allowed. ]/download.php?fname=./files/Service%20Manuals/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1411%20W-Rev%201%20Cub%20and%20Lo-Boy%202-76%20OCR.pdf


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