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PTO to PTO for starting

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Motorhead
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PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:33 pm

My 47 Cub is electric start. My 38 McCormick Deering T20 is crank. They both have PTO's...but I can't remember which way they rotate. Clockwise? Are they all clockwise? Been a while, but I think both tractors have the PTO either on or off, no select for rotation.
My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting? Is there a "reverser" shaft I could use?

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ricky racer
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby ricky racer » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:56 pm

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Cub pto runs counter clockwise at engine rpm. Your T20 turns clockwise at 540 rpms with engine at fast idle. Reversers are out there for the Cub which reduces the pto to 540 rpm but are not cheap.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby danovercash » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:59 pm

Don't know of a "reverser shaft", but if using PTO pulleys, a half twist will reverse the direction. When I had a belt (flat) pulley on the Cub I used it to start tillers and mowers with rope start or Sheave (pulley) on horizontal shaft. Edit: Ricky has the right idea, probably not safe.
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Motorhead
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler
Location: Central Coast of Califonia

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:12 pm

Thanks for the input. No, I am not considering open belts and pulleys....I would only couple the PTO's with one shaft. I don't understand what is an accident waiting to happen if the two PTO are coupled with one shaft. Sounds reasonable to me.
I'm not letting this go and will pursue it further.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Eugene » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:34 pm

Better to keep both tractors in tune so that they start easily.

I have had PTO shafts break at the U-joints while brush hogging. The shaft flopped and whipped around until I could get the tractor shut off.

Since your are going to pursue the PTO shaft to PTO; up date your health and life insurance. Let your significant other know this web site address so he/she can up date us on your status. Also tell your significant other not to sue me in case crap happens because I'm on record telling you not to do it.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Barnyard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:02 pm

I'll come over and hold your beer and watch.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby pickerandsinger » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:20 am

My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting?………Answer…..Not safely …You did pose the question…. :mrgreen: Dave
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SouthernOutlaw
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby SouthernOutlaw » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:17 am

Are you wanting to make starting the Mc Cormick easier? If so a high torque half inch battery powered drill with a crank end chucked in will work. Lot safer.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:13 am

How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?
Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.
Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Alright, here's the deal.

The Cub PTO spins at 1600-1750 RPM clockwise.
The T20 spins at 515 RPM counter-clockwise.

With the tractors back-to-back, they could indeed be connected with a straight shaft, and they would turn the right way.

The problem is, the Cub's engine at idle is faster than the maximum RPM of the T20's PTO. You would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 1500-1600 RPMs, which will take way more torque than the Cub's engine can produce at that idle.

Basically, you'd get them all connected, get the Cub putting along spinning the T20's disengaged PTO. As soon as you tried to put the T20's PTO in gear, though, the load from the T20's stopped engine would INSTANTLY stall the Cub.

If you tried to rev the Cub up, it would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 6400-7000 RPM! Same thing would happen as before: As soon as you let out the clutch on the T20, the Cub would stall.

Without some serious gear reduction, the Cub could not turn the T20's engine over. You'd probably want at least 10:1, maybe even 15:1, which then introduces complications like gearboxes and/or belts to the mix.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:08 am

outdoors4evr wrote:How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?


Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.

Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.


Good advice, but this can be done without getting any nearer to the spinning shaft than you would be on the seat of the tractor.

Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.


It's a crawler tractor. They don't tow start well, let alone with a Cub.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Clip » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:43 pm

Image

Side note - looks like seat was made by La-z-boy. Comfy!

Motorhead
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler
Location: Central Coast of Califonia

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:44 pm

Thanks for the input. Matt is the only one who has come up with a sensible answer. He's saying, if I get the right, the gear REDUCTION to the PTO going the opposite way will spin the at rest motor too fast....makes sense.
All the other naysayers need to bone up on how a driveshaft transfers power from the transmission to the rear end.....

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Eugene » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:20 pm

Darn. Not going to give it a try.

Bill is going to be disappointed. He was planning on a free beer and some inexpensive entertainment.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:18 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.


Not that familiar with the crawler...but "technically" wouldn't you need to disengage both tractors pto's together( at the same time, with 2 people versus 1) or else the first one you tried to disengage would still be under load from the second ?

just saying...Tim


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