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PTO to PTO for starting
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- 10+ Years
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- Zip Code: 93444
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler - Location: Central Coast of Califonia
PTO to PTO for starting
My 47 Cub is electric start. My 38 McCormick Deering T20 is crank. They both have PTO's...but I can't remember which way they rotate. Clockwise? Are they all clockwise? Been a while, but I think both tractors have the PTO either on or off, no select for rotation.
My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting? Is there a "reverser" shaft I could use?
My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting? Is there a "reverser" shaft I could use?
- ricky racer
- 10+ Years
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Cub pto runs counter clockwise at engine rpm. Your T20 turns clockwise at 540 rpms with engine at fast idle. Reversers are out there for the Cub which reduces the pto to 540 rpm but are not cheap.
1929 Farmall Regular
1935 John Deere B
1937 John Deere A
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1935 John Deere B
1937 John Deere A
1941 John Deere H
1952 John Deere B
1953 Farmall Cub
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- 10+ Years
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Don't know of a "reverser shaft", but if using PTO pulleys, a half twist will reverse the direction. When I had a belt (flat) pulley on the Cub I used it to start tillers and mowers with rope start or Sheave (pulley) on horizontal shaft. Edit: Ricky has the right idea, probably not safe.
"I'd rather be a mechanic in the shop"- Henry Ford
252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)
252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 pm
- Zip Code: 93444
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler - Location: Central Coast of Califonia
Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Thanks for the input. No, I am not considering open belts and pulleys....I would only couple the PTO's with one shaft. I don't understand what is an accident waiting to happen if the two PTO are coupled with one shaft. Sounds reasonable to me.
I'm not letting this go and will pursue it further.
I'm not letting this go and will pursue it further.
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- Team Cub Mentor
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Better to keep both tractors in tune so that they start easily.
I have had PTO shafts break at the U-joints while brush hogging. The shaft flopped and whipped around until I could get the tractor shut off.
Since your are going to pursue the PTO shaft to PTO; up date your health and life insurance. Let your significant other know this web site address so he/she can up date us on your status. Also tell your significant other not to sue me in case crap happens because I'm on record telling you not to do it.
Chit happens, just don't make a plan to make it happen.
I have had PTO shafts break at the U-joints while brush hogging. The shaft flopped and whipped around until I could get the tractor shut off.
Since your are going to pursue the PTO shaft to PTO; up date your health and life insurance. Let your significant other know this web site address so he/she can up date us on your status. Also tell your significant other not to sue me in case crap happens because I'm on record telling you not to do it.
Chit happens, just don't make a plan to make it happen.
I have an excuse. CRS.
- Barnyard
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
I'll come over and hold your beer and watch.
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.
- pickerandsinger
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting?………Answer…..Not safely …You did pose the question…. Dave
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Are you wanting to make starting the Mc Cormick easier? If so a high torque half inch battery powered drill with a crank end chucked in will work. Lot safer.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?
Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.
Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.
Look at the mess one bucking horse can do to a rider. 10 horses = a stampede
Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.
Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.
Look at the mess one bucking horse can do to a rider. 10 horses = a stampede
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
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- 10+ Years
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Alright, here's the deal.
The Cub PTO spins at 1600-1750 RPM clockwise.
The T20 spins at 515 RPM counter-clockwise.
With the tractors back-to-back, they could indeed be connected with a straight shaft, and they would turn the right way.
The problem is, the Cub's engine at idle is faster than the maximum RPM of the T20's PTO. You would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 1500-1600 RPMs, which will take way more torque than the Cub's engine can produce at that idle.
Basically, you'd get them all connected, get the Cub putting along spinning the T20's disengaged PTO. As soon as you tried to put the T20's PTO in gear, though, the load from the T20's stopped engine would INSTANTLY stall the Cub.
If you tried to rev the Cub up, it would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 6400-7000 RPM! Same thing would happen as before: As soon as you let out the clutch on the T20, the Cub would stall.
Without some serious gear reduction, the Cub could not turn the T20's engine over. You'd probably want at least 10:1, maybe even 15:1, which then introduces complications like gearboxes and/or belts to the mix.
The Cub PTO spins at 1600-1750 RPM clockwise.
The T20 spins at 515 RPM counter-clockwise.
With the tractors back-to-back, they could indeed be connected with a straight shaft, and they would turn the right way.
The problem is, the Cub's engine at idle is faster than the maximum RPM of the T20's PTO. You would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 1500-1600 RPMs, which will take way more torque than the Cub's engine can produce at that idle.
Basically, you'd get them all connected, get the Cub putting along spinning the T20's disengaged PTO. As soon as you tried to put the T20's PTO in gear, though, the load from the T20's stopped engine would INSTANTLY stall the Cub.
If you tried to rev the Cub up, it would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 6400-7000 RPM! Same thing would happen as before: As soon as you let out the clutch on the T20, the Cub would stall.
Without some serious gear reduction, the Cub could not turn the T20's engine over. You'd probably want at least 10:1, maybe even 15:1, which then introduces complications like gearboxes and/or belts to the mix.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
outdoors4evr wrote:How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?
Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.
Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.
Good advice, but this can be done without getting any nearer to the spinning shaft than you would be on the seat of the tractor.
Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.
It's a crawler tractor. They don't tow start well, let alone with a Cub.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Side note - looks like seat was made by La-z-boy. Comfy!
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 pm
- Zip Code: 93444
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler - Location: Central Coast of Califonia
Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Thanks for the input. Matt is the only one who has come up with a sensible answer. He's saying, if I get the right, the gear REDUCTION to the PTO going the opposite way will spin the at rest motor too fast....makes sense.
All the other naysayers need to bone up on how a driveshaft transfers power from the transmission to the rear end.....
All the other naysayers need to bone up on how a driveshaft transfers power from the transmission to the rear end.....
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- Team Cub Mentor
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Darn. Not going to give it a try.
Bill is going to be disappointed. He was planning on a free beer and some inexpensive entertainment.
Bill is going to be disappointed. He was planning on a free beer and some inexpensive entertainment.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting
Matt Kirsch wrote:Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.
Not that familiar with the crawler...but "technically" wouldn't you need to disengage both tractors pto's together( at the same time, with 2 people versus 1) or else the first one you tried to disengage would still be under load from the second ?
just saying...Tim
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