PTO to PTO for starting

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Motorhead
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 pm
Zip Code: 93444
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler
Location: Central Coast of Califonia

PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:33 pm

My 47 Cub is electric start. My 38 McCormick Deering T20 is crank. They both have PTO's...but I can't remember which way they rotate. Clockwise? Are they all clockwise? Been a while, but I think both tractors have the PTO either on or off, no select for rotation.
My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting? Is there a "reverser" shaft I could use?

User avatar
ricky racer
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4367
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:40 pm
Zip Code: 49120
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Niles / Buchanan, Michigan

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby ricky racer » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:56 pm

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Cub pto runs counter clockwise at engine rpm. Your T20 turns clockwise at 540 rpms with engine at fast idle. Reversers are out there for the Cub which reduces the pto to 540 rpm but are not cheap.
1929 Farmall Regular
1935 John Deere B
1937 John Deere A
1941 John Deere H
1952 John Deere B
1953 Farmall Cub

danovercash
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:48 pm
Zip Code: 28081
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Kannapolis

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby danovercash » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:59 pm

Don't know of a "reverser shaft", but if using PTO pulleys, a half twist will reverse the direction. When I had a belt (flat) pulley on the Cub I used it to start tillers and mowers with rope start or Sheave (pulley) on horizontal shaft. Edit: Ricky has the right idea, probably not safe.
"I'd rather be a mechanic in the shop"- Henry Ford

252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)

Motorhead
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 pm
Zip Code: 93444
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler
Location: Central Coast of Califonia

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:12 pm

Thanks for the input. No, I am not considering open belts and pulleys....I would only couple the PTO's with one shaft. I don't understand what is an accident waiting to happen if the two PTO are coupled with one shaft. Sounds reasonable to me.
I'm not letting this go and will pursue it further.

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Eugene » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:34 pm

Better to keep both tractors in tune so that they start easily.

I have had PTO shafts break at the U-joints while brush hogging. The shaft flopped and whipped around until I could get the tractor shut off.

Since your are going to pursue the PTO shaft to PTO; up date your health and life insurance. Let your significant other know this web site address so he/she can up date us on your status. Also tell your significant other not to sue me in case crap happens because I'm on record telling you not to do it.

Chit happens, just don't make a plan to make it happen.
I have an excuse. CRS.

User avatar
Barnyard
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 21307
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Zip Code: 45030
Tractors Owned: At This Time
40 Farmall Cubs (Round Hood)
2 Farmall Cub (Square Hood)
2 IH Cubs (Square Hood)
5 Lo-Boys (Round Hood)
2 Lo-Boys (Square Hood)
2 Farmall 404's
1 Farmall H
1 Ferguson 20
1 Cub Cadet 125
1 Kubota B-7100
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH, New Haven (Hamilton County)

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Barnyard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:02 pm

I'll come over and hold your beer and watch.
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt -

Circle of Safety

User avatar
pickerandsinger
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 1490
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
1950 Ferguson TO20 w/ loader (John Henry)
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby pickerandsinger » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:20 am

My question is can I put them PTO to PTO for starting?………Answer…..Not safely …You did pose the question…. :mrgreen: Dave
In Memory of 58,286

SouthernOutlaw
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:42 am
Zip Code: 36736

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby SouthernOutlaw » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:17 am

Are you wanting to make starting the Mc Cormick easier? If so a high torque half inch battery powered drill with a crank end chucked in will work. Lot safer.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:13 am

How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?
Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.
Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.

Look at the mess one bucking horse can do to a rider. 10 horses = a stampede
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4601
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Alright, here's the deal.

The Cub PTO spins at 1600-1750 RPM clockwise.
The T20 spins at 515 RPM counter-clockwise.

With the tractors back-to-back, they could indeed be connected with a straight shaft, and they would turn the right way.

The problem is, the Cub's engine at idle is faster than the maximum RPM of the T20's PTO. You would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 1500-1600 RPMs, which will take way more torque than the Cub's engine can produce at that idle.

Basically, you'd get them all connected, get the Cub putting along spinning the T20's disengaged PTO. As soon as you tried to put the T20's PTO in gear, though, the load from the T20's stopped engine would INSTANTLY stall the Cub.

If you tried to rev the Cub up, it would be trying to turn the T20's engine at 6400-7000 RPM! Same thing would happen as before: As soon as you let out the clutch on the T20, the Cub would stall.

Without some serious gear reduction, the Cub could not turn the T20's engine over. You'd probably want at least 10:1, maybe even 15:1, which then introduces complications like gearboxes and/or belts to the mix.

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4601
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:08 am

outdoors4evr wrote:How do you intend to disconnect the PTO once it is running?


Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.

Note: Never get near a PTO on a running tractor.


Good advice, but this can be done without getting any nearer to the spinning shaft than you would be on the seat of the tractor.

Might be safer to pull start with a tow rope.


It's a crawler tractor. They don't tow start well, let alone with a Cub.

Clip
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:18 am
Zip Code: 28479
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Clip » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:43 pm

Image

Side note - looks like seat was made by La-z-boy. Comfy!

Motorhead
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 pm
Zip Code: 93444
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1939 McCormick Deering T-20 orchard crawler
Location: Central Coast of Califonia

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Motorhead » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:44 pm

Thanks for the input. Matt is the only one who has come up with a sensible answer. He's saying, if I get the right, the gear REDUCTION to the PTO going the opposite way will spin the at rest motor too fast....makes sense.
All the other naysayers need to bone up on how a driveshaft transfers power from the transmission to the rear end.....

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Eugene » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:20 pm

Darn. Not going to give it a try.

Bill is going to be disappointed. He was planning on a free beer and some inexpensive entertainment.
I have an excuse. CRS.

brewzalot
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:10 pm
Zip Code: 53105
Tractors Owned: '57 cub Loboy
'61 cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wisconsin, Burlington

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:18 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.


Not that familiar with the crawler...but "technically" wouldn't you need to disengage both tractors pto's together( at the same time, with 2 people versus 1) or else the first one you tried to disengage would still be under load from the second ?

just saying...Tim


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall Cub”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests