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PTO to PTO for starting

The Cub Club -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
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Jim Becker
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Other than a bit of confusion over the rotation direction, it looks to me like nearly everyone gave you the same answer. The very first reply pointed out the PTO speed differences between the two tractors. Matt simply filled in a lot more detail than the others, details that you should have been able to fill in for yourself if you had boned up on how your PTOs work.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:44 am

I had a D4 once that the pony motor was a bear to start….(Rope pull)….I took an old Ford Starter with an external bendix and affixed a pulley to it and rigged a frame so that once I had a belt on both I could move a lever and tighten it….I had a piece of corrugated grill work to serve as a buffer to stop a broken belt or the like from flying at random …It worked great…And once the pony started it was just a simple matter of releasing the tension on the lever…I hope I explained that right but something like that might be an option…..It naturally ran off a 12 volt battery…. :D :D Dave…It was permanently attached to the dozer...
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Clip » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:08 am

You'd need a slip clutch or something similar to uncouple the two after both are running. A belt would work great for this.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:30 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.


Not that familiar with the crawler...but "technically" wouldn't you need to disengage both tractors pto's together( at the same time, with 2 people versus 1) or else the first one you tried to disengage would still be under load from the second ?

just saying...Tim


Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.

Of course this only works with transmission-driven PTOs. Live PTOs generally have a brake on them, and you'd burn up the brake very quickly unless you had two people to coordinate.

I've seen this done on a youtube video a couple of times, but that was a couple years ago in one of my generic searches for "Farmall."

In that case it was two larger tractors, H's or M's as I recall. I think he used a transmission to deal with reversing the rotation of the PTO shaft, since both tractors' PTOs spun in the same direction in that case.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby danovercash » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:23 pm

There has got to be a better way. The T20 could easily start the Cub. Not be other way around. Cub cranking crawler is the equivalent of starting a loaded tractor-trailer in road gear, not going to happen. If you want a portable starter why not put a bypass block on the Cub and plumb a hydraulic motor to it with a crank attached to the business end? Better put long handles on it to keep from rotating 360 degrees.
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.


Matt, but how do you disengage the first? Pushing in the clutch will not take the load off the pto? Yes you can "pop" it out of gear but that's not quite right...it may be splitting hairs but do you see what I mean?

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:08 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.


Matt, but how do you disengage the first? Pushing in the clutch will not take the load off the pto? Yes you can "pop" it out of gear but that's not quite right...it may be splitting hairs but do you see what I mean?


Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.

Obviously, you can't engage the PTO with it spinning unless you're really-really good at double-clutching.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:52 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.


You are correct that you will take the load of the first tractors engine off...but there is still some load from the second tractor at the pto slide gear(just coming from the opposite direction). Pushing in the clutch on the first tractor will not stop the drive shaft like normal. They will have to be uncoupled while turning vs. stopped.(Which can be done)

Let me ask this- do you ever disengage your pto , with an implement running, without pushing in the clutch? That is what this would simulate I believe. I don't, but maybe that is an ok practice.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby CharlieK » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:57 pm

I don't want any part of that---don't even wanta hold yer beer
get er done; life is good

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Scrivet » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:55 pm

I wonder what a backfire on the T20 would do to the Cub PTO shifter collar?

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:15 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.


You are correct that you will take the load of the first tractors engine off...but there is still some load from the second tractor at the pto slide gear(just coming from the opposite direction). Pushing in the clutch on the first tractor will not stop the drive shaft like normal. They will have to be uncoupled while turning vs. stopped.(Which can be done)

Let me ask this- do you ever disengage your pto , with an implement running, without pushing in the clutch? That is what this would simulate I believe. I don't, but maybe that is an ok practice.


The only load on the slide gear will be the drag from the Cub's transmission. Not even enough to worry about. It will slide out of gear with very little effort.

When I used to mow with my Cub, I would frequently slip the PTO out of gear at the end of a mowing session. Raise the deck, idle down, and let the engine and mower deck speeds stabilize for a second... Like butter.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:47 am

Matt Kirsch wrote:When I used to mow with my Cub, I would frequently slip the PTO out of gear at the end of a mowing session. Raise the deck, idle down, and let the engine and mower deck speeds stabilize for a second... Like butter.


Fair enough- I really like butter!

Motorhead- I too am not in any way condoning what you are proposing to do, that's up to you. But if you do, please take a video.

Tim

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:03 am

The discussion is all academic at this point because the Cub simply can't produce enough torque to turn the engine over.

If you've ever run a 59" mower deck you'll know what I mean. A T20 engine turns over way harder than a 59" mower deck.

I just wish I could find that video. It was a couple years ago and I was just browsing "Farmall" videos on youtube. I've tried searching for PTO start videos and come up with nothing.

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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Urbish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:17 am

This isn't the one Matt is referring to, but interesting nonetheless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae_4it5gJJg
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Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Urbish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:18 am

Matt Kirsch wrote:
I just wish I could find that video. It was a couple years ago and I was just browsing "Farmall" videos on youtube. I've tried searching for PTO start videos and come up with nothing.


Is this it, Matt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWi2Xu2wpfg
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