As usual, I disappear from the forum most all summer... Not to be unsociable, I just don't compute much in the summer months.
So now, it's time to get back to working on the cub again. Last summer around June and after we'd got the gardens planted, we put the belly mower on the cub and I went out to mow with it. It did its usual good job. I had purchased a new carburetor for it last winter, so I thought I'd try to use it. I didn't have a new gasket, so I put a used one on it. Well, it ran great in the shop for about 30 minutes. So then I took it down the hill to start mowing with it. As I started back up the hill, it would barely run, and it smoked badly and quit on me. So, I put the old carb back on it and it still wouldn't start. It was stranded and I had to tow it back up to the barn, and it has set beside the barn covered with a tarp ever since.
So today I got back to work on it. The battery is charging, and I've removed the intake manifold and carburetor and got new gaskets. I was so short on time last summer that I didn't have the time to dig into the cub's problems. With all the work I put into it last winter, I was really frustrated that it had quit on me. But, sometimes I forget that this thing is just a machine, and it's only as good as I make it.
I hope everyone has had a good year. We've have a good one, and I have no complaints! (except I wish I was a better mechanic! )
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Back to work on the Cub
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- Ben B
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:49 am
- Zip Code: 24354
- Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Southwest Virginia
Back to work on the Cub
1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4974
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: Back to work on the Cub
Things to look for: enough fuel in tank, vent in cap not plugged, check fuel flow from tank to carb (screen, sediment bowl, any inline filter, screen in carb inlet if present), main jet not plugged, fuel shutoff valve not plugged. If the fuel is getting through satisfactory, and when it run last about 30 minutes that's long enough for the coil to get hot. Coil might be weak. Do you have a battery ignition or magento? Check points to see that they are clean and no pits or burned surfaces and gap is properly set for your system, .013 for mag and .020 for battery ignition and firing when crankshaft is turned. Good Luck, Stan
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
- Location: Mo, Potosi
Re: Back to work on the Cub
If the smoke was black check the choke arm for being loose on the shaft and not being open. also float valve in the carb. All it takes is a small speck of dirt to prevent the float from closing and resulting in the engine flooding.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
- Ben B
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:49 am
- Zip Code: 24354
- Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Southwest Virginia
Re: Back to work on the Cub
Thanks for the advice. I have a magneto converted to an external coil, gapped at .013. I finally decided to get some experienced help, so...
Yesterday my Dad came out and helped me with the cub. I also found out a lot of my problem was that "new" carburetor. I'd read that the new ones were ready to go straight out of the box. This was WRONG! The float was adjusted with way too much drop, and then it would close the needle valve before the bowl was full. I also found debris in the carburetor. After we got all that cleaned up, and got everything readjusted per the service manual, we went to try to start it.
Well, it would barely hit at all. It still was spitting and sputtering, and once even ran for a couple of minutes, but just barely. And, when running, any throttle adjustment would make it try to quit, which it eventually did, then wouldn't restart.
Next, we went to check the ignition. Last winter I replaced the plugs (D16's), wires, cap, rotor, coil, points, and condenser with good stuff from TM Tractor. Well, we are getting a huge fat spark coming out of the coil, but a weak spark at the plugs themselves. I tried cleaning them, but it didn't make a difference. They are black from where the tractor had been out of tune, and the black soot doesn't want to come off.
I want to see if you all agree with me, but I'm thinking my plugs may not be hot enough, or maybe these got fouled and my attempt to clean them wasn't good. Yes, I did gap them according to the manual, and I timed it exactly the way Hengy's Youtube video demonstrates.
I think I'm really close to getting this figured out.
Yesterday my Dad came out and helped me with the cub. I also found out a lot of my problem was that "new" carburetor. I'd read that the new ones were ready to go straight out of the box. This was WRONG! The float was adjusted with way too much drop, and then it would close the needle valve before the bowl was full. I also found debris in the carburetor. After we got all that cleaned up, and got everything readjusted per the service manual, we went to try to start it.
Well, it would barely hit at all. It still was spitting and sputtering, and once even ran for a couple of minutes, but just barely. And, when running, any throttle adjustment would make it try to quit, which it eventually did, then wouldn't restart.
Next, we went to check the ignition. Last winter I replaced the plugs (D16's), wires, cap, rotor, coil, points, and condenser with good stuff from TM Tractor. Well, we are getting a huge fat spark coming out of the coil, but a weak spark at the plugs themselves. I tried cleaning them, but it didn't make a difference. They are black from where the tractor had been out of tune, and the black soot doesn't want to come off.
I want to see if you all agree with me, but I'm thinking my plugs may not be hot enough, or maybe these got fouled and my attempt to clean them wasn't good. Yes, I did gap them according to the manual, and I timed it exactly the way Hengy's Youtube video demonstrates.
I think I'm really close to getting this figured out.
1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4974
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: Back to work on the Cub
Ben B wrote: I also found debris in the carburetor.
I replaced the plugs (D16's), wires, cap, rotor, coil, points, and condenser with good stuff from TM Tractor. Well, we are getting a huge fat spark coming out of the coil, but a weak spark at the plugs themselves. I tried cleaning them, but it didn't make a difference. They are black from where the tractor had been out of tune, and the black soot doesn't want to come off.......
Where did the debris in the carb come from? Dirty tank? It only takes a small bit of trash to cause the needle valve to malfunction or stop up the jet. Suggest you try D21 plugs or equivilent. Sometimes when they get saturated it is impossible to clean them. Where did you get the good spark at the coil? Tower? Output to dist? Individual wire to plug? Also check the spark at the points with the dist. cap off. If it is not a crisp spark you might have a poor ground. What is the condition of the plug wires? Copper (solid, not carbon) works best. Good luck, sounds like you're making progress. Stan
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
-
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 20336
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
- Zip Code: 65051
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Mo. Linn
Re: Back to work on the Cub
Engine not running, roll it over until the TDC mark on the pulley lines up with the pointer. If the impulse coupling clicked when rolling the engine over, back the engine up until the timing marks line up.Ben B wrote:I replaced the plugs (D16's), wires, cap, rotor, coil, points, and condenser with good stuff from TM Tractor. Well, we are getting a huge fat spark coming out of the coil, but a weak spark at the plugs themselves.
Remove the distributor cap and check to see if the rotor is pointing directly at either the #1 or #4 spark plug wire tower on the distributor cap.
I have an excuse. CRS.
- Ben B
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:49 am
- Zip Code: 24354
- Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Southwest Virginia
Re: Back to work on the Cub
Eugene wrote:Engine not running, roll it over until the TDC mark on the pulley lines up with the pointer. If the impulse coupling clicked when rolling the engine over, back the engine up until the timing marks line up.
Remove the distributor cap and check to see if the rotor is pointing directly at either the #1 or #4 spark plug wire tower on the distributor cap.
I did this, and it pointed at #1 at TDC, then I turned the engine two clicks and it was pointed at #4.
staninlowerAL wrote:Where did the debris in the carb come from? Dirty tank? It only takes a small bit of trash to cause the needle valve to malfunction or stop up the jet. Suggest you try D21 plugs or equivilent. Sometimes when they get saturated it is impossible to clean them. Where did you get the good spark at the coil? Tower? Output to dist? Individual wire to plug? Also check the spark at the points with the dist. cap off. If it is not a crisp spark you might have a poor ground. What is the condition of the plug wires? Copper (solid, not carbon) works best. Good luck, sounds like you're making progress. Stan
Debris came from a rubber gas line, which I eliminated and went with metal.
My D16 plugs have been heavily saturated a few times, so they may be toast.
Good spark came from removing the coil wire from the distributor cap and holding it close to ground. The spark jumped a good quarter inch, a hot blue spark.
I haven't checked the spark at the points since I reassembled everything, but it was a good spark when I did it last spring.
Plug wires came from TM tractor, and they're copper, and they're new.
My spark plugs are black and I can't get the black soot off of them with any cleaner I have.
Thanks for the help.
Ben
1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
- Ben B
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:49 am
- Zip Code: 24354
- Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Southwest Virginia
Re: Back to work on the Cub
staninlowerAL wrote:...Sometimes when they get saturated it is impossible to clean them...
Well, Stan had the answer in his advice referring to the spark plugs. After fixing the carburetor and fuel line issues, and it still failing to start, I went and bought another new set of spark plugs and gapped them and installed them. And then, it started right up. It poured out the smoke and spit and sputtered for about 30 seconds and then started to smooth up, and after about a minute it was back to purring like a kitten!
Evidently the engine had gotten so flooded that it saturated the plugs and engine to the point that cleaning the plugs would not suffice to fix them. I didn't realize that new plugs could be ruined like that. But anyway, the new plugs, along with all the other new parts I have installed have gotten it back to running condition!
Thank you for the help everyone!
Ben
1950 Farmall Cub post demo 108xxx
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
1964 Farmall Cub 6 volt 223xxx
1968 Fairmont Railroad Motor Car 2 cycle hit and miss single cylinder
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