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Interesting Post About Hytrans

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johnbron
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Interesting Post About Hytrans

Postby johnbron » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:13 am

I borrowed this post from YTs forum and thought some of you may be interested.
.
.
After all the great posts in answer to my
question about Hy-Tran, I've done some
looking around, been to two dealers and
come to some conclusions. You guys need to
read this post carefully before commenting. My
goal here was to find out if there was anything
special about Hy-Tran that warranted the
higher price.


1) When you go to a dealer to buy bulk
hydraulic/transmission fluid, don't necessarily
expect it to be "official" Case/IH Hy-Tran. Of the
two dealers nearest me, one used a Citgo
product (either Transgard or maybe Mystik
JT-5) and the other Shell Donax. They did offer
Case/IH Hy-Tran in 5-gallon buckets at the
parts counter, but in the shop, it was the bulk
stuff. The bulk was about $5.80/gal, the
Hy-Tran $8.00/gal in the bucket. One dealer
parts guy freely admitted the bulk fluid was not
Hy-Tran, and while the other parts guy was a
little cagey, one of the wrenches out back had
no problem telling me. Both outfits claimed
the other fluids were perfectly compatible with
the old International Hy-Tran B-6
specifications, while meeting the newer
Case/IH standards (Hy-Tran Plus).


2) There is a universal industry specification
for Hydraulic/Trans fluid that is compatible
with the old B-6 specification, which appears
to be nothing special in this day and age.
Maybe it once was. All the oil out there for
which I could get Product Specification Sheets
claimed to be compatible with, or to meet or
exceeded this standard. The industry standard
tests include oxidation resistance, rust
protection, water sensitivity, clutch and brake
chatter performance tests, etc. Even the lower
priced fluid, such as the Wal Mart Super Tech
and TSC Traveller we discussed in the
previous posts meet these specs.


3) I did find some "No-Name" fluid out there in
a local Farm/Ranch store that just says
"Hydraulic/Transmission Fluid" and not much
else on the label. It did not claim to meet any
manufacturer's spec. I'd be leery of this stuff
and you could find stuff like that elsewhere.


4) I collected, and am still collecting, Product
Information Sheets on Hydraulic/Trans Fluid. I
can't go into all of it in detail because of space
limits here, but these specs were very much
the same on all the fluids. Some had a little
more of this or that, but nothing that really
jumped out as super. Well, except the Amsoil
product. It appears to be great stuff, but it ain't
cheap at $18.70/gallon. This stuff WAY
exceeds all specs and performance tests.


5) FYI, I got Data sheets on the following oils I
in no particular order), Case/IH Hy-Tran, John
Deere Hy-Gard, Universal Torque Fluid
(Texas Refinery), Superfilm Universal Tractor
Fluid (Amrep), Hydraul (Esso), Synthetic
Tractor Hydrulic/Trans oil (Amsoil), Champion
#4000, Ultratorque ( Horizon Lubricants), HG
Fluid (Phillips 66) Valvoline Premium
Universal Tractor Fluid, Castrol UTF,
Transgard (Citgo), Donax (Shell), 75 Fluid,
Mystic JT-5, Mobilfluid 424 (Mobil).


6) I THINK, I have a Data Sheet for the TSC
Traveller (manufactured under contract to
TSC, I will confirm), but I haven't been able to
get one for the Wal-Mart Super Tech, though I
can get sheets for their motor oils and 90wt
gear oils (which show and test well).


7) I found some independent oil tests on two
hydraulic oil products, one of which was the
John Deere Hy-Gard and it tested very well.


8) CONCLUSION. Though the jury is not fully
in on some of the oils, it appears there is
nothing super special about Hy-Tran that
cannot be met by a brand name, universal
hydraulic/trans oil that lists itself as a
functional equivalent for, or "meets and
exceeds" the Hy-Tran Spec. The Mystik JT-5
even claims to be patterned after Hy-Tran on
its Data sheet. Because the Wal Mart and TSC
oil is so attractively priced, I will focus more
research on these oils to determine if they fit
in with the brand name oils and meet a
reasonable quality standard.
Then came Bronson

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Nice work!

Postby allenlook » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:21 am

Nice work!

I have my suspicions about the Hy-Tran as well, and ran Wal*Mart fluid in mine until I rebuilt the unit last week.

I put Hy-Tran Plus in it just to be "original", but the unit always ran fine on the Wal*Mart brand and had no wear or issues as a result.

When I bought the tractor, it had something that looked and smelled like 90W in the unit.
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Postby freebird » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:40 am

I have been using stuff called AW-32 in the cub, any danger there?
Tell the truth, there's less to remember!

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Postby WKPoor » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:52 pm

Has anyone ever tried just plain old motor oil in the touch control?

I use 30W in the H system and its real cheap and works great. Can't see why the Cub wouldn't be any different. Might want something a little thinner like 10w but what the heck. Also if I get a leak into the engine, well it wouldn't hurt a thing- same stuff. Been using the motor oil for long time and never had any issues with it.

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Postby Super A » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:23 pm

Well, I will say the same thing I said on YT---why not just use Hy-Tran and be SURE you have the right oil?? I realize it costs more but you know that old saying, you get what you pay for.......o

Al
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Postby Buzzard Wing » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:27 pm

Interesting... I did a lot of reading on motor oils all over the net when I swapped the ol' 351 in the truck (for a 'factory' Motocraft motor) and came to the conclusion that the additive package makes the major difference. That will go be depleted pretty similarly among syn and dino oil.... so I use a synthetic blend Motorcraft that was $1.50 a quart at Wally world, now it is 1.92 (read the label, 5w-30 and 10w-30 are syn blends) I regularly change the oil (3000 miles) and expect to get a very long life out of the engine. Think about it, who do you know that ever had an oil related engine failure?? Running out doesn't count.

I was always very particular about the injection oil in my snowmobile too... always factory. But when I had a problem with the the oil pump I started to use Castrol because it was available everywhere and quite a bit cheaper. Figured that Castrol was good enough for all my vehicles (till I bought a Ford and found MotoCraft to be a synthetic blend and less expensive) it should be good enough for my snowmobile that was closing in on 10,000 miles (has 13000 or so now).

Now it is about a year after I sprung for 2 gallons of Hy-Tran. That is a pretty serious proposition for me because I had to go way out of my way to get to a Case/IH dealer (closest one is in NH, 2 states away). I have even gone so far as putting it in the transmission and final drives because of the water absorption properties over gear oil.

So you get the idea that I am particular about the fluids I put in my machines....

Since the design of the Cub is older than me (got a lot of gray hair these days) and the advances in oils, lubricants, etc is pretty substantial since that machine first rolled off the line I would now say that you could be pretty safe running most any decent quality hydraulic oil.

But, there is one rule that should not be broken.... DON'T MIX OILS. If you have Hy-Tran in something.... continue to use Hy-tran. If you are going to switch, change it completely.

I will throw another one out too.... some folks don't believe in detergent oil either. The major advantage of detergent oil is that it suspends crud either until it is filtered or the oil is changed. Crud that is suspended cannot build up in the engine. Just because they didn't use it when the Cub was designed ONLY means that it wasn't invented yet.

Yesterday I changed the oil and tranny fluid in cub #2 and used WallyWorld gear oil (gotta work on the tranny, so it won't be in long) and I used Havoline 10w-30 (SE or whatever rated) because it is reasonably priced and will surely work well in an engine that maxes out at 2000 or so RPM.

I bet this thread will be interesting when I get back Monday!
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Postby johnbron » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:49 pm

Super A wrote:Well, I will say the same thing I said on YT---why not just use Hy-Tran and be SURE you have the right oil?? I realize it costs more but you know that old saying, you get what you pay for.......o

Al


Send me some and I wont have to make a 200 mile trip to buy it. Thats would be a good enough reason for me not to have to find a good substitute locally. :idea:
Then came Bronson

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Postby George Willer » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:04 pm

johnbron wrote:
Super A wrote:Well, I will say the same thing I said on YT---why not just use Hy-Tran and be SURE you have the right oil?? I realize it costs more but you know that old saying, you get what you pay for.......o

Al


Send me some and I wont have to make a 200 mile trip to buy it. Thats would be a good enough reason for me not to have to find a good substitute locally. :idea:


Bronson,

If you get an oil with the proper specs, spending more can't get you any more than peace of mind, or a sense of IH patriotism. Many times a product is overpriced simply because some are willing to pay it. I'm not! 8)
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Postby johnbron » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:16 pm

George Willer wrote:



Bronson,

If you get an oil with the proper specs, spending more can't get you any more than peace of mind, or a sense of IH patriotism. Many times a product is overpriced simply because some are willing to pay it. I'm not! 8)[/quote]


I agree George, I have been buying Wal-Mart super grade hydraulic oil that states it is compatible with all Case-IH equipment and have not had any problems using it. When I bought it a year+ ago it was $17.00 for a 5-gallon bucket and I still have plenty left.
Then came Bronson

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Postby Rudi » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:56 pm

JB:

If I didn't have a CaseIH Dealer as close to me as Wal-Mart or Canada Trash is, I would probably use whatever Hy-Tran, Gear Oil or Engine Oil that I could find that at a minimum met or exceeded the manufacturers specs.

With that being said, I like using the CaseIH products. When it gets to be a concern financially, then I will probably opt for a more economical price. However, in the mean time, seeing as I have a CaseIH dealer and I don't have to drive an hour to Sussex, I will continue to purchase as much as I can reasonably afford at my dealer. That way I can keep my local dealer - local :wink: :lol:

Oh.. just bought all the stuff I needed for Ellie's head job.. gasket is a dealer item., generic water outlet gaskets, headbolts, oil filter and plugs I could have gotten in town, but I would have had to drive another 25 kms or so... and the price is comparable.. might have saved a dollar or two, but with gas at $3.55US a gallon.. nope... shortest route possible is good enough for me.

However, as George and Larry pointed out... proprietary branding is not always better, just more expensive. A lot of times too, house brands and National brands are all produced in the same facility.

The Irving Refinery in St. John - about 2 hrs from me, produces most of the petroleum based automotive products in the province... and markets under many brand names... some house brands, some national. Also, the Ultramar Refinery in Dartmouth NS about 3 hrs from me, does the same...

I guess the guiding principle should be to use whatever is equivalent and available in your area... :idea: :!: :?:
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:01 pm

WKPoor wrote:Has anyone ever tried just plain old motor oil in the touch control?.
Motor oil is what was used in the very ealry ones.
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Postby Jim Becker » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:45 pm

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:
WKPoor wrote:Has anyone ever tried just plain old motor oil in the touch control?.
Motor oil is what was used in the very ealry ones.


And the Touch Control system was the reason IH started providing a specific hydraulic oil. That should tell us something.

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Hy-Tran

Postby allenlook » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:31 am

I have to drive 50 miles to get Hy-Tran... 2 states is far enough that I wouldn't bother!

Hey Rudi, what's Canada Trash?
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Postby beaconlight » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:09 am

In many ways this thread makes me feel lucky. True I have to drive 172 miles to get to my cub but I pass 2 case IH dealers and TM on the way. Once there it it 2 1/2 miles to Catskill tractor a Case IH ealer. Many times I e mail order and the parts are there when I get there and with a 10% discount.
Just call me lucky.

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Postby moe1942 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:13 am

I put Wally world hyd fluid in my touch control. No problems. If a fluid specs out the same as the OEM it is safe to use. Just to be on the safe side all original fluid should be removed.

Drain, fill with new fluid, run, drain and refill. There is a Wally World everywhere too.


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