Centre line engine?

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UK-Cub
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Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:38 am

There's a topic on the go '2016 Project help needed - a narrower Cub'. Whether or not making a narrower Cub is a good idea is for others to decide, this forum I realise is not to criticise, and I can see for certain applications it does meet needs, good luck to them.

But it set my mind working and my question is. Has any one made a Cub into a 'conventional' design by

A) centralising the front axle - picture on the above referenced topic point the way
B) taking out the 16" right hand rear spacer and substituting 8" spacers at each side
C) introducing shortened half shafts at each side
plus
D) repositioning the clutch / brake levers
E) centralising the seat
F) sorting out a gear linkage forward of the current one
etc

Just wondering?

You might ask why, well why not, we all need a hobby.
David

1956 Lister D stationary engine
1957 French Cub
2012 Land Rover Defender 110 double cab pick up

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:52 am

You are pretty much talking about the numbered series lowboys, such as 154, 184, 185. Your ideas remind me of a very respected deceased member name George Willer who also liked to do things like that just because he could.
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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Urbish » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:16 am

I think your biggest challenge (beyond modification of the half shafts) would be centralizing the steering shaft/wheel. Might be able to add a couple of universal joints or a chain to gang the parallel shafts together, but it would look wonky and have to be behind/above the rear surface of the fuel tank.

You're basically describing modification of the Cub to look like a B.F. Avery - Model V. It could be done but would require a level of effort that exceeds most peoples' ambitions.

Image

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:54 am

Thank you John and Jim for your positivity and the pointers.

Didn't know about the Avery, nor in truth the numbered Series Low Boys; indeed Cubs are as rare as hens teeth in the UK, so I need to minimise the imported parts and hope it's just going to be the extra half shaft.

Steering is indeed going to be an issue as is repositioning the front axle pivot. The narrow tractor in another topic has a plate to accomplish this with a bracing strut. I'm not sure what to do.

Think I'll start with the back end.

I'm going engineer and build the tractor but will have to subcontract the spacers and half shaft mods. I'm thinking a sleeve heat shrunk on to the middle of the 1/2 shafts will work. Something we did when I earned my wages and before retirement and idleness set in.

Thanks again.
David

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1957 French Cub
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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby bythepond88 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:49 pm

Normally, I would not say anything, but your comment that cubs are rare in the UK prompted me. I won't tell you not to, but please think about this: If you centralise the engine, you destroy the utility of the cub, the "cultivision" setup. Here in the states, that wouldn't be so much, but when they are scarce, you are seriously shrinking the availability for someone down the road for whom a cub would be perfect for his/her purpose.

I am seriously in awe of people who can do this kind of modification, but in this instance, I can't help but think that just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:52 pm

images.jpg
images.jpg (11.73 KiB) Viewed 933 times
Do a search for "orchard cubs" or "vineyard cubs". The are basically centerline mod cubs

More photos showing clutch on left side viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75242

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18130
Last edited by inairam on Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:52 pm

It would make for a wide beast, but you can use a stock factory right axle housing extension and axle shaft on the left side with minimal modifications. I think that's what George Willer did for his tricycle Cub if I'm not mistaken.

You're going to need a second right axle shaft and housing extension to cut down regardless, unless you fabricate a left housing extension from scratch. I think it would be easier to cut down an existing housing and weld than to fabricate one from scratch, myself. Even worth the trouble to import it. If you fabricate it, the tractor will never look symmetrical unless you spend a lot of time "cake decorating" on your fabricated extension to make it look factory.

An alternative is to fabricate BOTH extensions. That way you are not doing anything permanent to any of the Cub's original parts.

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:58 pm

Don't worry gents.

I would plan two fabricated extensions so that the original width is maintained.

No original parts would be modified, apart from the half shafts, and the tractor could be reinstated. Seeking to achieve this but get the steering right is the major issue as has been identified.

Just a paper exercise at the moment.
David

1956 Lister D stationary engine
1957 French Cub
2012 Land Rover Defender 110 double cab pick up

Every day is a school day

"Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life" Confucius

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:37 pm

I'm wondering if a shortened right hand half shaft can be used at the left side?

It looks as though the diff end is different, maybe I could cut the end off as well as a mid section?

I'll compare the seals, bearings, gaskets etc at each side and as a final check, if I go ahead, by measuring, adding in a piece to a left hand part and maintaining the integrity of the dimensions would be a challenge.
Attachments
image.png
David

1956 Lister D stationary engine
1957 French Cub
2012 Land Rover Defender 110 double cab pick up

Every day is a school day

"Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life" Confucius

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Donegal Cub » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:16 pm

Boy David do you like a challenge, :worthy: :worthy:
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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:25 pm

Keep in mind that the inner ends of the 2 differential/brake shafts are not the same distance out from the center of the drive train.

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:54 am

Jim Becker wrote:Keep in mind that the inner ends of the 2 differential/brake shafts are not the same distance out from the center of the drive train.



Thanks for this, and to other contributors.

I see from the cross section above, and from various photos on the site, that the connection at the diff and axle housings is by flat faces with location by dowels and not a male/female spigot.

Easier to manufacture but it means the support is through the securing screws and those dowels, wonder why they did it like that? BUT it worked OK with the 16" right hand spacer with twice as much moment as the two 8 inch spacers I'm proposing.

Maybe cheaper in manufacture and no thought that the Cub would be around and earning it's living all these years later.
David

1956 Lister D stationary engine
1957 French Cub
2012 Land Rover Defender 110 double cab pick up

Every day is a school day

"Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life" Confucius

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Scrivet » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:50 am

UK-Cub wrote:........ wonder why they did it like that?..........
Isn't just about every component on a Cub put together this way? transmission to torque tube, torque tube to engine, engine to bolster

Two machined surfaces that are bolted and doweled is still pretty common. Check out how some of the components in your car go together.

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:26 am

Flat machined surfaces with precisely placed dowel holes insure that the alignment of shafts between the two components will be near perfect. Threads always have some clearance, which will allow misalignment of a threaded joint to one degree or another.

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Re: Centre line engine?

Postby UK-Cub » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:37 am

At work we used male / female spigotted joints for location, particularly or perhaps specific to adjacent parts that have been turned, (do you use the word pilot?)

Always interesting to see how others did things.

Every day is a school day.
David

1956 Lister D stationary engine
1957 French Cub
2012 Land Rover Defender 110 double cab pick up

Every day is a school day

"Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life" Confucius


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