I need some help, I am at a loss

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PoconoCub
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:Compression test of all cylinders should tell you if there is a valve problem on one of them.


That is the first thing I have planned, not sure if my old cheapy push in and hold it there tester still works but going to try it. If not I will have to see if AutoZone or Advance Auto Parts will lend me one and will have to wait until my wife gets home to drive me.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:15 pm

Eugene wrote:Compression test(s) will tell you if you have a valve sealing problem. You want to do this before removing the head.

I see Stan said the same thing.

7 hours run time. Still think you have an ignition timing problem.

Check everything before tearing the engine apart.

Have you checked for ice in the fuel system? Might try a can of "heat", fuel system deicer.


I went over everything again and the timing is fine. As for the fuel system I drained it 3 times today and no water or ice and the first thing I did this morning wasa take off the carb and put it in front of a heater to make sure it wasn't frozen. I also tried 2 other carbs. I will do a compression test tomorrow if my old tester still works before I tear it down.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby Eugene » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:18 pm

When the wife gets home, have her help. Put the timing light on the engine. Check the ignition timing on all 4 cylinders.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:27 pm

Eugene wrote:When the wife gets home, have her help. Put the timing light on the engine. Check the ignition timing on all 4 cylinders.


LOL surely you jest, my wife help me with the tractor :)
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby Eugene » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:41 pm

PoconoCub wrote:
Eugene wrote:When the wife gets home, have her help. Put the timing light on the engine. Check the ignition timing on all 4 cylinders.
LOL surely you jest, my wife help me with the tractor :)
Nope, no jest. You need someone to pull the starter rod while you check the ignition timing.

Then you can praise her for what a good job she did and that you really appreciate the help. Called sucking up. All husbands need to do that to make life bearable.

Just passing on one of life's experiences. Example: Tell your daughter, who is learning to bake, that your really like the cookies.

Daughter was in her mid 20's when she told me that she figured out that I didn't care for toll-house chocolate cookies, her favorite.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:03 pm

Eugene wrote:
PoconoCub wrote:
Eugene wrote:When the wife gets home, have her help. Put the timing light on the engine. Check the ignition timing on all 4 cylinders.
LOL surely you jest, my wife help me with the tractor :)
Nope, no jest. You need someone to pull the starter rod while you check the ignition timing.

Then you can praise her for what a good job she did and that you really appreciate the help. Called sucking up. All husbands need to do that to make life bearable.

Just passing on one of life's experiences. Example: Tell your daughter, who is learning to bake, that your really like the cookies.

Daughter was in her mid 20's when she told me that she figured out that I didn't care for toll-house chocolate cookies, her favorite.


I already suck up too much :) I do the cooking, cleaning, laundry, plowing when the tractor is running, and fix her car all she has to do is bring home the bacon :)
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:12 pm

Do the compression test with all the plugs out and the throttle all the way forward.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby gitractorman » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:35 pm

Hate to play devil's advocate, but if you ran her for 7-hours and it all of the sudden wouldn't run, I'd be looking for a broken wire somewhere in the ignition. My guess is you hit something or jarred it hard enough to break a wire, or there was a wire against the rockshaft or laying under the hood that is bare somewhere and grounded out. Cub engines are way to simple, and there's no way you ran good for 7 hours and now have a burnt valve or bad compression all of the sudden, unless a huge piece of crud broke off and lodged in one of the valves, but again highly unlikely. Same with the timing, there's no way for it to run great then all of the sudden not, if everything on the mag was tight when you checked it. I would have guessed fuel flow and fuel freezing, but you're not in that cold of temps, and you said the fuel flow was fine. I've had cubs out in single digit temps and never had a problem with fuel freezup, so this all makes me again lean towards a short or something.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:00 am

gitractorman wrote:Hate to play devil's advocate, but if you ran her for 7-hours and it all of the sudden wouldn't run, I'd be looking for a broken wire somewhere in the ignition. My guess is you hit something or jarred it hard enough to break a wire, or there was a wire against the rockshaft or laying under the hood that is bare somewhere and grounded out. Cub engines are way to simple, and there's no way you ran good for 7 hours and now have a burnt valve or bad compression all of the sudden, unless a huge piece of crud broke off and lodged in one of the valves, but again highly unlikely. Same with the timing, there's no way for it to run great then all of the sudden not, if everything on the mag was tight when you checked it. I would have guessed fuel flow and fuel freezing, but you're not in that cold of temps, and you said the fuel flow was fine. I've had cubs out in single digit temps and never had a problem with fuel freezup, so this all makes me again lean towards a short or something.


Although I checked all the wires I will check them again today. Thinking it could be the mag switch I disconnected the wire from the mag and it still will not start. Although we have temps in the teens, the gas is not freezing up and I use Seafoam with every fill up. Well see what the compression is this morning if my old compression gauge still works and go from there.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby SouthernOutlaw » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:12 am

Was she back firing through the carb before you removed the distributor cap? I can't tell you how many times I have installed plug wires wrong when in a hurry. So, double check the plug wires, and make sure they are in there correct order. Also like was said above check the wiring for shorts.

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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:18 am

SouthernOutlaw wrote:Was she back firing through the carb before you removed the distributor cap? I can't tell you how many times I have installed plug wires wrong when in a hurry. So, double check the plug wires, and make sure they are in there correct order. Also like was said above check the wiring for shorts.


I did double check the spark plug wires and everything is ok, the popping through the carb has stopped but when cranking you can hear it popping through the exhaust differently then it normally
would. I will be checking the wires again and the compression if my old gauge still works this morning. Hopefully it will warm up a bit as it is currently 9 degrees.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:37 am

Well my old compression tester still works and I am getting 150 psi in each cylinder, I also tested the spark on each cylinder and I have a good spark on all 4.

IMG_3180-2.jpg


Went over the wiring again and cannot find and shorted out wires or wires grounding out.

When I pulled the plugs the cylinders were wet with gas from me trying to start it so it is getting gas.

In my 40+ years as a mechanic gas + spark should fire right up but it's not. After my hands warm up I will re-check the mag timing just to be sure. (Scratching Head)

IMG_3182-2.jpg
IMG_3183-2.jpg
Last edited by PoconoCub on Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby Puffie40 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:15 am

Aside from plug wetness, how do the plugs look? My model H carbon fouls plugs to the point where I have to wire brush them before they will fire again. The usual symptom for that is rough running.

Edit: this may be worth asking even if you switched magnetos: have you checked out the condition of the magneto pinion and rotor gears?

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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby PoconoCub » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:00 am

Puffie40 wrote:Aside from plug wetness, how do the plugs look? My model H carbon fouls plugs to the point where I have to wire brush them before they will fire again. The usual symptom for that is rough running.

Edit: this may be worth asking even if you switched magnetos: have you checked out the condition of the magneto pinion and rotor gears?


I put in cleaned up plugs and they were wet when I took them out, I have the other set I pulled out yesterday cleaned up and going to try them.

The mag I put in the day of the storm was rebuilt and working, the gears were fine. I also checked the one I took off and they are fine also.
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Re: I need some help, I am at a loss

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:10 am

In your magneto picture, your rotor is pointing at #2, not #1. If that picture was taken with the crank pointer as shown in the previous picture, you are off 1/2 turn on the magneto. With the wires installed as in the book, each cylinder will fire at the start of the exhaust stroke.

Two fixes, both assuming your #1 piston is at TDC COMPRESSION, not TDC EXHAUST:
1. Move the plug wires all one position counterclockwise on the cap.
or
2. Remove the magneto, turn the drive one and a half turns counterclockwise and reinstall in the exact same place it is now.


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