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Reverse Polarity

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drmathieu
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Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall Cub

1953 Farmall Cub

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Reverse Polarity

Postby drmathieu » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:24 pm

I tried to start my Cub this past weekend to pull the kids around on their sleds and ran the battery down starting. :( The tractor would start up on the first crank during our warm Virginia weather lately. My neighbor who has tractors (Farmalls and Kubotas) had a 6 volt charger and let me borrow the charger. When I hooked up the charger, the needle pin to the top and started "clicking". I disconnected the charger and asked my neighbor what was going on. He said hook the charger up backwards. I did connect the red to negative and the black to positive and the battery charged but I still did not get the tractor started. Two questions:

1. What is up with the reverse polarity?

2. The tractor will crank and will almost catch, but will not start.

any ideas?

Matt

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Scrivet
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Scrivet » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:03 pm

First thing you need to do is figure out exactly what is going on. Do you have a reversed polarity battery, is somebody a little fuzzy on "positive ground", or has your neighbor got the wrong colored clamps on the wrong cables, or?????. It is possible to charge a battery with the negative terminal as the positive and vice versa, typically when installing a drained or dead battery and not polarizing the generator. Positive ground is nothing magic, just the electrons flowing counterclockwise in the circuit rather than clockwise. I would start with a simple voltmeter and place the red wire on the positive battery terminal and the black wire on the negative terminal. +6 and the battery's fine -6 and you've got something to fix. Which end of the battery is grounded? No start could be battery related maybe something else. Identify if there's a battery problem before moving on to starting issues. No sense skipping problem A and fighting problem B if B is caused by A.

SouthernOutlaw
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby SouthernOutlaw » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:51 pm

I may be wrong but I have always charged a 6 volt positive ground battery p to p, n to n. Now my father, a mechanic, told me 50 yeats ago to always disconnect the cables from the battery post before charging on a positive ground system. The ground wire is the positive wire on these systems so it will through the charger into over load if the charger is connected properly with the cables connected. As far as the tractor not starting. Check your fuel flow first. Then points.

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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:41 am

As Scrivet suggested, check the battery with a meter, to see if it,s been charged backward. I haven't encountered it for a very long time, but if at some point your battery was fully drained, it's possible that it was recharged backward, either by the tractor or other means. If you find that to be the case, it will have to be fully drained again and recharged the proper way. We used to encounter this from time to time.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:39 pm

Gary Dotson wrote:As Scrivet suggested, check the battery with a meter, to see if it,s been charged backward. I haven't encountered it for a very long time, but if at some point your battery was fully drained, it's possible that it was recharged backward, either by the tractor or other means. If you find that to be the case, it will have to be fully drained again and recharged the proper way. We used to encounter this from time to time.
:Dito: I saw it years ago in a 55-58 vintage (don't remember exact year) Chevy. It had an idiot light rather than an ammeter, so everything was good except for the radio. After he brought the radio to the shop twice and I could find nothing wrong I told him to bring the car. Really startled me when I hooked the Simpson 260 up and the meter tried to go backwards.
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:56 pm

Try using some choke while cranking. It's there for cold starting.

When its cold the air is denser and you need extra fuel in the mixture to get the engine to fire up the first time.

Choke is best served in short pulses. Give it a "blip" and if it fires, keep giving it blips of choke to keep it running until it evens out and runs on its own. If it doesn't fire, try a longer blip.

Be careful, though, too much choke will flood the engine; you can't just set it and forget it.

drmathieu
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby drmathieu » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:01 pm

I think I will be buying a new battery at TS. The battery that came with the tractor is pretty old and in need of an upgrade. Will this correct the problem or will the generator reverse the polarity on this battery?

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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:21 pm

You should polarize the generator to make sure it is charging correctly.
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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:27 pm

Once the battery is connected (6 volt systems go + to ground or frame, and - lead to starter terminal), you need to polarize the generator, which is easy if you have the side mounted regulator, but if you have a generator mounted cutout or regulator it is a pain. Polarize it by going from the B or bat terminal of regulator/cutout or from the battery cable to the A stud of generator or the G or GEN terminal of regulator. Stay away from the F of FLD lead. The polarizing is done with the engine stopped, and a small spark is normal.
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Criswell » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:54 pm

Here is a copy of the paperwork that used to come with all of the Delco-Remy cutouts and regulators, when new.

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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Hi,
Every Farmall Cub that was originally 6 volts was originally a positive ground electrical system. 6 volts was used on tractor serial numbers 224400 and below. So if you were asking why is it positive ground, that is why. :)

drmathieu
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Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall Cub

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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby drmathieu » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:05 pm

I am shaky at best when it comes to electrical issues. So I checked the battery with a voltmeter. The red went to POS on the battery and the black went to NEG on the battery, the voltmeter read -6. So I hooked the voltmeter backwards i.e. red went to NEG and black went to POS and the voltmeter read +6. The battery is currently connected with the NEG going to the ground wire(tractor frame) and the POS is going somewhere to the tractors electrical system.

If I get a new battery from TS (6 volt) and hook it up as it should i.e. POS to red and NEG to ground wire, will I screw up the electrical system or do I need to hook the battery up backwards. Do I need to polarize the generator(sounds complicated)? Is there a PDF or manual for this?

Sorry I am so confused, my father was an electrical engineer, I guess I should have paid more attention but I do not like getting shocked! :lost:

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Don McCombs
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Don McCombs » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:04 pm

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viewtopic.php?f=140&t=11804


Your regulator may be installed 180 degrees from this position. Pay no attention to the hack wiring job. :D
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Jim Becker
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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:34 pm

Sounds like your battery is charged backwards. I would discharge it completely (leave the lights on), reverse the connections and charge it correctly. Then polarize the generator before staring the engine.

You might not need a new battery. If it had been sitting unused and without a battery maintainer for a long while before it failed to start it may just need a full charge.

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Re: Reverse Polarity

Postby Criswell » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:20 pm

drmathieu wrote:If I get a new battery from TS (6 volt) and hook it up as it should i.e. POS to red and NEG to ground wire, will I screw up the electrical system or do I need to hook the battery up backwards. Do I need to polarize the generator(sounds complicated)?


If you are buying a new battery, and your Cub has the standard/factory 6 volt system, the positive terminal of the new battery should be hooked to the ground cable and the negative should be hooked to the starter. The Cub was/is a 6 Volt, positive ground system until they (International Harvester) switched to the 12 volt system. After the new battery is installed, and before you start the tractor, polarize the generator by momentarily connecting the two terminals on the regulator using a jumper lead/wire. The two terminals will be marked as BAT and GEN or B and G, depending on your regulator. Complicated, no, intimidating if you have never done it before, yes.

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