Cub won't start

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CharlieR
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Cub won't start

Postby CharlieR » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:15 pm

Started my Cub yesterday for first time after winter and it went off like a charm. Started ok a second time but when pushed into a pile of loam (it has a bucket loader) it stalled. When tried to start it...nothing. No turn, no nothing. Any thoughts on what it might be. Battery is up and there is juice to the starter.

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Re: Cub won't start

Postby HART » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:02 pm

Dumb question on my part, are you sure you turned gas flow back on after winter ? [ Don't ask me why I'd suggest that !! ]

Crimson Tim
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Crimson Tim » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:06 pm

When you say nothing, do you mean absolutely nothing? Nothing turns, no sounds, not even the click of the starter relay? Then it must be electrical.
If so, and power is getting to the starter, then power must not be getting back from the starter back to the battery. Sounds like you knocked an electrical connection loose. I would start by chasing through your electrical system from the battery to the starter, starter to ground, and ground back to battery and take apart and clean to shiny bright metal all electrical connections in that circuit. Likewise for the starter relay.
You could go through it with a meter looking for a bad connection, but I don't think that will work very well. A dirty connection may let enough current through for the meter to register it as ok, but the large power draw of the starter can't get through (Though it seems like it should do something, even if not enough to start).
If the electrical system is working and trying to turn the engine, it is possible for something to have been mechanically jammed. I have heard of the starter gear jamming against the flywheel, in which case just turning the engine a little bit one way or the other by hand should release it. Also I have heard of the transmission getting stuck in two gears at the same time. If this has happened and you're trying to start it with the clutch pedal released, then nothing can move. Others more knowledgeable than myself will chime in about what to look for when you open the transmission should this be the case.

Can you hand crank it to start it?

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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Jason (IL) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:48 pm

If it was running ok before you started to use it some thing I would consider? If you were trying to force the tractor to do more than it could handle when it stalled, you may have caused a vapor lock in the intake. I have had to pull start my Cub with those instances. When you drove into the pile, a electrical connection may have come loose or moved. Possibly after setting all winter condensation could have finally gotten between something. I have noticed at times after the first cold start and use the next time the tractor can be hard to start. It could really be anything, trouble shooting the issue is the only aggravating task. I am willing to bet there is a bad connection if you get no response after it has stalled. Start with your battery then trace the wires from the starter to the on/off button then to the Amp gauge, and then to the coil and distributor (not likely that I would think). This is what I have done with my tractors in the past 20 yrs.

Good luck, let use know what you find.

CharlieR
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby CharlieR » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:50 pm

Yes, I mean nothing. No hum, no spin like a bendix spring gone, nothing. There is no question of juice getting to the starter motor. When I pull the starter nothing happens. I thought of trying to take the starter switch off to see if it is clean or if something is broken. I will also put it in gear and try to rock it a bit and see if it is stuck. I don't have a crank so trying that won't help.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:53 pm

Assuming it is 6 volt and has the pull rod to start, first check all the connections battery to starter, and battery to ground. Then as was mentioned above, see if you can turn engine by hand. If not the starter drive has probably jammed into the teeth of the flywheel ring gear. This is not unusual when the starter drive and ring gear teeth get worn. If that is the case, loose the 2 starter mounting bolts a round or so and use a hand crank to turn the engine, or put it in 3rd, and with the ignition OFF rock the rear wheel forward and backward. When you see the fan turn a little, tighten the bolts and try starting it.
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby jljmonky » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:02 pm

sometimes I get a lot of corrosion on my body terminal (would be the positive if not converted to 12V) when it gets hot from cranking a lot. I have been able to loosen and clean battery connections and its fine. I have literally cranked it, waited five minutes and then it won't do anything, cleaned and tightened the connections and off it goes.

CharlieR
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby CharlieR » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:38 pm

Was able to jump start the Cub. Started right away. Shut it off and same thing. Starter won't turn. My guess is I need a new one. :?

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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Eugene » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:34 pm

CharlieR wrote:Was able to jump start the Cub. Started right away. Shut it off and same thing. Starter won't turn. My guess is I need a new one. :?
Have battery tested. Check the cables and terminals for corrosion.

Since you jump started the tractor, probably not the starter.

What voltage battery does this tractor have?
I have an excuse. CRS.

muleboss
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby muleboss » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:12 pm

If you jump started it at the battery. I am betting you have a dirty connection at the battery. Between post and cable or in cable and connector.

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Re: Cub won't start

Postby CharlieK » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:20 pm

the inside of your starter switch (on your starter) might not be making the right connections---numerous things could cause this am offering only one :tractor:
get er done; life is good

CharlieR
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby CharlieR » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Well I purchased a new starter from an on line source, got the starter the other day and now I have a new problem. The starter switch on the old starter is offset about a half inch from lining up with the top bolt hole on the starter. On the new starter the switch is in direct allignment with the top bolt hole. As a result I can't install the new starter because the switch hits the side of the engine before the bolt holes line up. I'm in contact with the supplier and they are claiming what they sent out was the right one. Anybody run into this before? I know my cub was built in 1952.

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Glen
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Glen » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:52 pm

Hi,
It sounds like the new starter is made wrong, or is for some other engine, not a Cub. I would return it if it won't fit.
Have you looked at the starter you had to see if can be rebuilt. Sometimes it is something simple, the brushes and bushings wear out after years of use. When the brushes wear down a certain amount, the starter won't work anymore. The bushings wear, and then the armature can rub on the magnets, which makes a drag inside the starter.
The contacts in the switch on top of the starter slowly burn from years of use, and the switch won't work anymore, and then it needs a new switch.
It can have an electrical problem inside it too, a shop can test it and see if it is good.
If you don't want to rebuild the starter, Case IH or NAPA might have info about rebuilt ones.
Here is a page from the Cub parts book showing the starter. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 008-10.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eugene
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Eugene » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:30 am

Common starter repair parts, brushes, bearing and bushing, are available at your auto parts store. The common repair parts are inexpensive. Common repairs are fairly simple. There should be a number of videos on the internet covering the topic.

Been a while since I had an Allis Chalmers starter repaired at a shop specializing in electrial motor repairs. Think the total bill was around $37-.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Glen
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Re: Cub won't start

Postby Glen » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:12 pm

Hi,
I phoned Case IH and NAPA today, and they said they no longer have any rebuilt 6V starters for Cubs. They say take your old starter to a shop that can rebuild it. They said the places they send starters can replace all the internals of the starter if necessary.
They are not hard to rebuild yourself, if the brushes and bushings are all that need replacing.
The 6V starter is a 1940's Delco design, so it's not quite as easy as newer starters. The brushes and brush holders are mounted on the end plate of the starter, so you have to unhook wires to get the end off the starter. They have screws to loosen, the screw heads are reached by putting a screwdriver in the holes that are under the cover band. :)


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