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Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

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DickB
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Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills

Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby DickB » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:47 pm

Imagine buying a tractor, well a green newish one, but really not buying a tractor, just buying the right to use it? Hello world? What to do with wrenches, screwdrivers, socket sets, grease rags...?

http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-t ... 7ba0822537

Tell me why I like my old red non-softwared, sparks and points Farmall Cub, please.

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LRiddle
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Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:57 am
Zip Code: 44278
Tractors Owned: .
1951 Farmall Cub - Chesty

Woods 59 belly mower

54A blade

1956 Gravely L

Dozer blade

Tiller

Rotary Plow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tallmadge, OH

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby LRiddle » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:36 pm

Our church just bought a brand new green 1025r with a mower and loader. It's a great machine and does everything we need it to do. But that being said, there are so many "safety" things on it that it almost becomes a pain to use at times. Gear range must be in neutral and brake applied to start. Can't back up with the PTO engaged or the whole tractor shuts off. Parking brake must be on and PTO off to get off the tractor and on and on. Sure these safety features are put on with good intentions, but usually the extra stuff just gets in the way. I can understand the purpose behind it, but it can be a pain if you forget, or do things in the wrong order.
Luke Riddle
Tallmadge, Ohio
1951 Cub - Chesty



"You can't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln


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Slim140
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Posts: 4908
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: .
1970 International 140
1972 International 140
1949 John Deere A
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby Slim140 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:46 am

DickB wrote:Imagine buying a tractor, well a green newish one, but really not buying a tractor, just buying the right to use it? Hello world? What to do with wrenches, screwdrivers, socket sets, grease rags...?

http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-t ... 7ba0822537

Tell me why I like my old red non-softwared, sparks and points Farmall Cub, please.


Tell me how comparing a Cub to a tractor made this day and time is even comparable? Compare the Cub to a J.D. made the same era, I have both and both have their place. John Deere isn't the best selling tractor made by sitting back and waiting on the competition to invent things. Yeah I may bleed green but I do have 2 Cubs.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?

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KETCHAM
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Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby KETCHAM » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:58 am

I'll take an old tractor over the new ones any day....Do stupid things that you are not supposed to and you get what you deserve....Same in life....I like to work on the old stuff...Even I can do it.....new stuff...well....not a computer guru...so I have a tough time on it.....Ketcham
47 CUB[Krusty] 49 CUB[Ollie] 50 H-- PLOWS DISCS MOWERS AND lots more stuff!!Life is to short -Have fun now cause ya ain't gonna be here long!!!!

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Slim140
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1972 International 140
1949 John Deere A
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby Slim140 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:59 am

KETCHAM wrote:I'll take an old tractor over the new ones any day....Do stupid things that you are not supposed to and you get what you deserve....Same in life....I like to work on the old stuff...Even I can do it.....new stuff...well....not a computer guru...so I have a tough time on it.....Ketcham


Agreed!
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Circle of Safety

Matt Kirsch
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Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:10 am

To be clear, you own the mechanicals of the tractor, just not the SOFTWARE. These farm media publications are making ignorant statements, and blowing this whole thing way out of proportion.

It's the same with the computer you are sitting at reading this. You don't own the Windows or MacOS or Linux operating system. You don't own the Chrome or IE or Mozilla browser. You own the computer, and a license to use the software.

Same as music. You don't own the song, you own the media it's on, along with a license to listen to the song.

That's how computer software works. That's how music works. It's to protect the creator's/owner's intellectual property. See, if you truly owned the software/song you could make copies of it and sell it, legally, stealing income from the creator/owner of the software.

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gitractorman
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Posts: 2678
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Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
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1964 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
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Mitsubishi MT180D 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Grand Island, NY

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby gitractorman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:40 pm

To further Matt's thoughts. Farmers needed faster, stronger, more economical equipment in order to stay competitive and to farm faster, easer, more efficiently. That is exactly what tractor manufacturers have done, implemented computers into farm equipment to make them more efficient at everything they do.

I couldn't imagine a true "production" farm using a Farmall M to farm with. They'd go bankrupt just trying to till the land and put the crops in, before they ever even got a chance to harvest them. There's no way they could keep up with the modern equipment, and I don't know a "production" farmer that would ever want to.

Just like your new car. I can't imagine going back to driving a Model A Ford, or even a 1950's or 1960's pickup truck across the country. Yes, I'm sure I could do it, but it sure wouldn't be fun, and I cannot imagine what the cost would be. If I had to drive across the country, I'd take my brand new Dodge pickup over just about anything, with Sirius satellite radio so I can listen to my music anywhere, a computer that runs the engine and transmission and helps it get over 25 mpg on the highway and lets me drive 600 miles on a tank of fuel, power seats that let me feel like I'm cruising in a car, and air conditioning!!!!! Also, you know what, I'm perfectly happy not being able to turn wrenches on my new truck because I don't want to screw it up!

Matt hit the nail on the head, the statements are ignorant and just put out there to piss people off. I know a guy who has a few thousand acres he farms between Rochester and Buffalo, and you know what, he has a whole fleet of brand new, computer driven equipment. He grew up as a diesel mechanic, and when I asked him about this article, he laughed and said, "screw it, I don't want to work on it anyway. Also, he GLADLY signed up for the service contract because it gives the machine a better warranty and better trade-in value if he doesn't like the machine or wants to trade it in later!" Bet they left that part out of the article....
Cub Cadets 682, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller

offrink
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Zip Code: 49316
Tractors Owned: 1954 farmall fcub, 1954 farmall super m
Location: Caledonia, MI

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby offrink » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:05 am

One new jd tractor costs over $250k. How many farmall tractors and people can you hire to make the work equal? 3 tractors and farm hands cost 150k/year? So you would/could have 5 tractors and 5 year round farm hands for 1 tractor. That's where I have the issue.

Eugene
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Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby Eugene » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:20 pm

offrink wrote:One new jd tractor costs over $250k. How many farmall tractors and people can you hire to make the work equal? 3 tractors and farm hands cost 150k/year? So you would/could have 5 tractors and 5 year round farm hands for 1 tractor. That's where I have the issue.
The farmers I know are astute business people. Some have on staff accountants and knowledgeable legal (tax) advise.

Current farm machinery and the farm's physical plant is designed to eliminate much of the manual labor.

Labor cost. In order to be productive, one employee must return/generate an income 2 or 3 times the labor cost. A $40K per year employee needs to return to the farmer between $80K and $120K for the farmer to be profitable.

Depreciation or leasing equipment tax advantage.

One of my previous employers would spend late November and December with a spreed sheet. Figuring out what equipment he wanted to buy, which to sell or trade, profit margin, and potential profit margin.

Edit: In this part of the Ozarks, farming operations are multi-million dollar investments/operations. It's not hard to envision a capital expenditure of $250K investment in machinery to continue the farm's operation.
I have an excuse. CRS.

tinnerjohn
10+ Years
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:52 pm
Zip Code: 44491
Tractors Owned: 52 Cub, 42 Farmall H 49 Ford 8N (FIL's tractor) and a yard full of implements for them 51 Chevy 3100 PU
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: West Farmington, OH

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby tinnerjohn » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:37 am

As much as I like using a H or M, I think I prefer the AC and cab with no dust for 10 or 12 hrs. a day. Plus the small HP would have trouble with no till. or minimum tillage. My BIL has 3 tractors running in the spring, one fitting ground, one for beans and one on the corn planter, That would be 15 tractors and 15 drivers, plus all the implements. What a nightmare!

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clm2112
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Zip Code: 15438
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
Location: Fayette City, Pennsylvania

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby clm2112 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:52 am

Personally, I'm torn by the whole issue of the software inside the power-train control modules. In my thirty year professional career as a software engineer, I understand the need to protect the code inside the product you sell. I've climbed around inside a number of GM, Ford, and Suzuki ECM/PCM modules to make tweeks for my own cars and motorcycles. If you are not careful, you can get the vehicle really out of whack, which would be a nightmare for the manufacturer. I mean, if you screw with the values and wind up burning up the engine, how does the manufacturer protect themselves from being on the hook for the abuse you caused?

The flip side is restricting the ability for the tractor's owner from doing repairs, since they don't have the diagnostic tools to trace problems. Happened yesterday on my dad's new JD 5055E. He was out brush cutting and the the PTO kept shutting down. It took a while to trace the code being thrown and figure out the the chaff coming off the tall weeds was plugging up the oil cooler fins, causing it to overheat and shutting off the PTO. Once understood, it was easy to correct. But were it not something this easy, then we would have to wait for a tech from the dealer to come out with the diagnostic tools. Downtime is money lost.

I'll stick to Cub and the Ford 2000. They may be old, and not as fuel efficient, but they are dirt-simple to work on.

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havoc1482
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Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby havoc1482 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:12 pm

Making diagnostics easier for farmers would be the best. Make basic diagnostic tools universal and readily available to a reasonable price like OBDII.
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Slim140
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Tractors Owned: .
1970 International 140
1972 International 140
1949 John Deere A
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby Slim140 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:44 am

havoc1482 wrote:Making diagnostics easier for farmers would be the best. Make basic diagnostic tools universal and readily available to a reasonable price like OBDII.


That would make the most sense for all parties involved.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?

Circle of Safety

DRaymond
5+ Years
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Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:28 pm
Zip Code: 99223
Tractors Owned: 1948 FCub 13747 "Marie"
1948 FCub 16109 "Lizzie"
1948 FCub 44181 "Gussie"
Cub-54A Leveling & Grader Blade
Cub-22 Mower
Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Spokane Washington

Re: Arn't you glad it ain't green and got no software?

Postby DRaymond » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:54 am

Great discussion and informative to me. Thank you all. Geez I love this site.
DT Raymond
Spokane, WA
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48 FCUB - Marie
48 FCUB - Lissie
48 FCUB - Gussie
Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-22 Mower
Cub-54 Leveling & Grader Blade


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