Primer Need some help

[jakeesspoo]

First, thanks for all the replies I have recieved on all questions so far, I promise to pass the knowledge I learn on to others as i get olderand wiser! Im starting to get some of my body parts stripped to bare metal. Can I use regular rattle can primer from the local auto zone or do i need something "better"? Also although its a LONG ways away, after I get everything going and ready for paint (wich I want to do myself) how should I go about this. I only have a small pancake compressor will I have to get a new one? I want my paint job to look all pretty and shiny like all of your tractors!!! I want it to look as good as possible while doing it myself... Also I bought a wire brush for my angle grinder. Its just crimped wires but I saw the brush with the braided wires. They looked a little too heavy duty, am I wrong about this? Should I get one? And can i let the tractor sit through the winter without being painted only primed If I dont get a chance to paint before winter? My barn is not heated and unfortunately other buildings and corn crib are too small to get tractors in or just plain to drafty and loose so my project will really come to a temporory halt this winter until after spring when Im finished getting the Lyman (1958 21' wooden powerboat) ready for water....Thanks guys....your all tractor geniuses!!!

[johnbron]

I have been using Wal-Mart Red Oxide primer in the spray can for all my priming and have not had a problem with it. Cheap 98-cents a can. But I wont use there paint, I use X-O Rust brand which works good fer me. I dont like the full twist wire cup wheels. They are to stiff and I think the straight or bottom twist wheels work better with the flexability they give.

[allenlook]

Jake, congrats on getting your project started.

A couple things - many use rattle can primer, and many even use rattle can spray paint with surprising results. I believe one of the paints to avoid is Krylon, which is dubbed Kryl"off" because it flakes off so badly. I use RustOleum myself.

Secondly, not everyone's tractor is pretty and red, there's also a bunch that are "refreshed" and still working hard, as opposed to "restored." They are various shades of red and/or "metal cancer." (Some are yellow, too.)

Thirdly, the bigger task ahead of you may be getting that Lyman ready for water! I just watched a buddy put about a jillion dollars into restoring one only to give up after two years because the Fireball 8 just isn't up to the task even after being rebuilt - he can get it to start and get out on the lake, but he can't turn it off or there's no gaurantee he'll be coming back *in*.

[jakeesspoo]

Thanks for the replies...As for the Lyman its always ready for the water! My Grandpa gave it to my dad to us (me and brother) and so on but my grandpa is still here so i guess Its still actually his! All it ever really needs is a tune up, fresh paint and varnish and were fishing...All wood is in good shape and replaced when needed. Lyman boats were made in Sandusky Ohio where I grew up and live...My grandpa worked at the factory for a while prior to taking over the family business. I fortunate enough to say that my family has had a boat in the water every year and I am lucky to have grown up right on the lake (Erie). There is also a large amusement park here in sandusky named Cedar Point thats right on the water that many people have heard of...

[Davesaver]

Most important is to remember primers do not seal the surface they will pass moisture. A non catylized automotive primer is good for about 30 days depending on the exposure and then you risk rust forming under your primer. I don't know how long a rattle can is good for. The pigments in rattle can primer are ground finer so they will stay in suspension longer and pass through the nozzel. End result you will need to apply more material if you need to use it as a primer filler.

It's always best to apply your top coat as soon as possible. During a restoration some folks will apply a top coat on sub assemblies only to scuff sand them before applying the final coat on the completed assembly.

If you have the equipment, spraying a quality automotive primer will always give you better adhesion for your topcoat and depending on the primer better protection. It's all integrated and somewhat technical if you follow the manufacturers recommendations.

In the 14 years I was in the automotive refinishing industry I have seen just about every short cut a painter could come up with. Some of them work.

I don't have much knowledge restoring Cubs but I am happy to help with paint questions. I can address short cuts what you will save in time and money and what sort of results you might expect. I can also share what it takes to do it by the letter.

It all depends on resources, money, available equipment and the desired result. Ultimately whats going to make you happy.

Dave

[Arizona Mike]

I have never painted a Cub, but expect to get a compressor and do this in the near future. I have never painted with anything other than spray cans. I have been doing some small parts and experimenting with using glazing compound and different primers.

A company called SEM makes a "High Build Primer Surfacer" that will fill most rough areas and pitting. Its easy to sand too. If the pitting is real bad try their glazing compound first. Clean and make the metal bright then clean it again before you prime or glaze

[Buzzard Wing]

I had a couple of recycling buckets full of rattle can paint and primer, so that makes me an expert. X is an unknown and spurt is a drip under pressure.

In general, I used Rustoleum automotive (gray). So far that seems to be a sucess. I found the final coat could be easily nicked, but that seems to be areas where I did not properly clean the surface before priming (someone told me to use starter fluid, it has oil in it!) or that I did not have the castings/sheet metal up to the recommended temp. I did nearly all my painting in the winter in a garage that was only heated when I was working. Seems like that would effect the 'cure' of the paint, but it looks good to me.

On the second tractor I have been using Duplicolor high build. I like the way it sprays and am sure it will be OK. Seems to be the easiest to use.

Get a gallon of denatured alcohol to wipe down whatever you are going to prime. I have a box of c fold towels and they don't seem to leave much dust behind.

I had the rear rims sandblasted and that guy said to only use brush on primer. So the rims and the back end of the the Cub were primed in Rustoleum clean metal primer. It is a lot of work to clean up when you prime everything you worked on that day. Also, it leaves brush marks.

As for air.... I have a pancake compressor too. It might work and I will try it one day since I got a free paint gun as part of the class action suit. (too late now) It's not recommended.

I painted everything yellow with Case/IH rattle can paint and am really pleased with the outcome. Takes a bit of practice to get no runs and a good gloss, but it looks pretty good.

Another option for the final coat is to find someone (pro) that will do it in their 'slow' time. Stuff like the hood, wheels, platform and fenders are easy to give to someone while you are working on the other stuff. So everything white on my Cub (except for mower parts) were done that way. It also gets that stuff out of your way for a while.

This picture does show the white, the yeller and the rim (you can see the primer on the tire, I got better by the time I painted the silver).
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Bu ... b2ffa5.jpg

This one gives you an idea of how rattle can paint can look, http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Bu ... 0Small.jpg

Hope that helps.

[Buzzard Wing]

Oh yeah..... and get a good respirator. Easy to find on eBay.

[wilfreeman]

Hi Jake,

Just a couple of things pertaining to priming/painting. If your 'tins' (ie your fenders, tank, wheels, grill) have any pitting in them after stripping, you should use a high build/sandable primer. This primer will fill in the pitting areas using less coats - it will also give a smoother, more durable finish coat. You can use the 99c stuff, but in order to get a 'high build', you will have to put it on thicker (possibly running the primer), or put on many coats. Also, this primer takes alot longer to fully cure. I just primed my fenders and rear wheel centers today at my brother's body shop using automotive grade primer and activator - this stuff made most of the pitted areas almost disappear with 2 coats! I'm sure that after I wet sand them you won't see any of it! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones to have a body shop with all of the tools, supplies and paint booth available for my use! Sorry Guys - I didn't mean to gloat!

Anyhow, as far as the wire brush goes, I used one of the twisted cup brushes on my grinder to clean up the fenders and wheels today - the blasting cabinet would barely touch that old paint! I had 3 layers on it (yellow, red, red), and it was taking too long in the blast cabinet, so out came the grinder. It made short work of all that paint - about 45 min. of grinding and about another hour back in the blast cabinet to clean them all the way down. No deep scratches, but it did 'melt' some of the stubborn paint making it hard to get off. Then I was off to the shop for a final DA sanding and primer. Overall, I would say that the twisted wire cup would be a better choice on the heavy stuff, but probably overkill on the grill and hood (you should probably hand sand them for that perfect finish).

I'd say the pancake compressor probably wouldn't work for painting. I've never tried one for this purpose though, so who knows! The pancake compressor just has too small of a tank, making the compressor run alot more, creating more heat, which creates moisture. You could try the water traps, or the disposeable water filters, but I would guess there would be too much water for them to handle. I've got a 5hp 80gal industrial compressor, complete with water traps, and still get some through the line! I use the disposeable water filter on the spray gun to catch the little bit that gets that far.

Like everyone else says, it all depends on resources and money as to which method to go with. I've had decent success with the rattle can and the brush - I used both for painting the chassis. Your 'tins' are the most obvious and looked at parts of the tractor, so I think they should be the parts that receive the most attention - they should be the best looking pieces on the tractor. That's my opinion anyway - just take your time and do the best job that you can on them, and if you don't like the results, many bodyshops have slow times during the fall, and would be happy to do the job.

Sorry about being so long winded, and I hope I didn't step on any toes with my ramblings. GOOD LUCK JAKE!!

[kinelbor]

I painted my Cub with a detail srayer. It isn't a small airbrush, but more like a mini sprayer. To run it off compressor you will need a regulater. I used this gun http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&ProductOID=631472&CNTKEY=Products_2%2FPower+Tools%2FAir+Tools%2FSpray+Guns+%26+Accs.&pagetitle=HUSKY+HDS550+Detail+Spray+Gun
It is small enough so you will have to take your time painting, which you will need to do anyway with the small compressor. My compressor pumps 1.4 cfm but is 100% duty. This worked great for me. I would reccomend this sprayer for anyone looking for a good deal. For paint I used rustoeluem primer thinned with acetone, and CNH Ironguard 2150 Red, thinned with Laquer Thinner. Having some mineral spirits is good for cleaning the sprayer too becuase it leaves some oil on the surface. Good luck.