Bad compression

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ParlowMillFarm
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:22 pm

Yes Chipmaker, the manuals have some nice illustrations about the right way to get them on the pistons. Would a Lisle 18500 Small Engine Ring Compressor be the right thing for this?

Thanks for the tip Tim.

Also I have some STP, can I use this in place of some Permatex ultra slick?

John

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Glen
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Re: Bad compression

Postby Glen » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:00 pm

Hi,
It is a good idea before putting the rings on the pistons to put one or more rings themselves in each cylinder, push the ring down 1 or 2 inches in the cylinder with the top of the piston, if it is a flat top piston, so the ring is straight in the cylinder, and measure the ring end gap with a feeler gauge. Then you can be sure the rings are the right size for the cylinder, too small an end gap is not good.
GSS-1411 says .007-.017 inch end gap for the compression rings, and .007-.020 inch for the oil rings. The page is below.
Then when you put the rings on the pistons, they should be free to turn on the piston when you squeeze them into the grooves. Info for clearance is on the page below too.

The connecting rods should be turned one direction when putting the pistons in, the book says on page 1-35 that the stamped numbers at the lower end face toward the camshaft.

It would be good to use plastigauge on the crankshaft bearings, to be sure the clearances are right, before putting the oil pan on it.

If your ring compressor fits comfortably on the pistons, it should work. If it's too small, then you will need another compressor.

GSS-1411 is newer than some of the other manuals, I think, maybe you want to look at it too. Here it is below. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-06.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/galleries/ci ... actors.asp

ParlowMillFarm
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:13 pm

Thanks Glen,

I downloaded GSS-1411, is it me or are sections 3 and 4 missing?

John

Jim Becker
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Re: Bad compression

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:00 pm

The copy on farmallcub.info seems to be missing those sections. The copy in the PDF manuals on this site appears to be complete.

ParlowMillFarm
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
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1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:00 pm

Thanks Jim, got it.

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Glen
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Re: Bad compression

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:46 pm

Hi,
I did notice those sections were gone from the manual in the past. I didn't think of it when I posted it above, guess you found another one that is complete.
I'm not sure about the STP that you asked above, I've never used it for engine assembly. :)

Eugene
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Re: Bad compression

Postby Eugene » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:18 pm

ParlowMillFarm wrote:Would a Lisle 18500 Small Engine Ring Compressor be the right thing for this?
If it will compress down to 2 5/8". Most small engine tools will work on the C60 engine.
Also I have some STP, can I use this in place of some Permatex ultra slick?
Light weight engine oil. Install the rings on the piston. Lightly oil the rings and side of the piston. Then install the ring compressor.
I have an excuse. CRS.

ParlowMillFarm
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Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:59 pm

Thanks Eugene, engine oil it is.

Those fancy lubes might be needed for engines tuning over 1800 rpm.

John

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Re: Bad compression

Postby capecodcub » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:19 pm

ParlowMillFarm wrote:Chris,

Advanced Engine Rebuilding Inc. in Wareham Center, 176 Main St, Wareham, MA 02571, Phone:(508) 295-2288. Not too far for you.
Google has some interesting photos of some of their work from 2013.

John

I was going to recommend them. Hans is the absolute best. I have had a few different motors done, including my 2 cub motors, by him and they are always spot on. He isn't cheap, but you never have to worry about his work!
David Svarczkopf

ParlowMillFarm
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1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:59 pm

I got my engine back yesterday. I'll take some photos and make a post tomorrow.

The engine rebuild guy must have noticed the lost look in my eyes every time he said I could put this together by myself (actually it wouldn't be by myself as I have all of you helping). He decided to put parts together enough to constitute a short block. I am still waiting for the clutch pilot bearing ordered on December 16 from Yesterday's. The painted surfaces were painted with Kimball Midwest Ultra ProMax Gloss Red (#80-887). (I will repaint with the wife's red color of choice, Rustoleum Regal Reed)

I know there are a lot of opinions on what I am about to tell you below, but for what it is worth this is what the engine guy told me:

1. He uses Permatex #2 to coat the head bolts when the water jacket is pierced, he has had problems with the teflon pipe dope, although his engine assembler has not, and uses it.
2. He does not like lock washers and would rather use locktite. When using a regular washer he likes to use a Grade 8 as the "normal" ones will splay out uder very little pressure.
3. He told me to treat the head gasket with Copper Spray-a-Gasket, and to use High Tack Spray-a-Gasket for the other gaskets. (Both Permatex products) (Most of my surfaces are flat now. There where some odd small pieces that did not get machined - water inlet and outlet pieces for example.)
4. I told him about a "trick" I was told about, which is to use permatex #2 on one side of the gasket and Never-Seez on the other side to held protect the gasket when you have to take things apart. He just laughed, shook his head, and told me #3 above.
5. For engine assembly, he uses and gave me some Lubriplate No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease.

John

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Re: Bad compression

Postby capecodcub » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:06 pm

Not sure if you were talking to Rob or Hans, but either way, listen to them and just follow their directions. Did you see the 1912 Locomobile motor they are working on or the $40K Ferrari motor, or the BMW boat motors.....I think you get my point. They know what they are talking about. Learn from their or others mistakes and you won't have to touch this motor again. Keep us posted. Sending this to you from the other side of Buzzards Bay.....
David Svarczkopf

tst
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Re: Bad compression

Postby tst » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:25 pm

Your builder is correct, they did not use lock washers on the head bolts from the factory to start with, replace the head bolts with the correct ones and a good sealer on the threads such as a Teflon liquid/paste types, the copper coat should be used on the head gasket, if you have a fel-pro type they are blue on one side, do not spray the blue side

ParlowMillFarm
5+ Years
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Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
Zip Code: 02738
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:50 pm

So my short block is back.

The head looks much better, has been cleaned out and resurfaced.
clean_head.JPG
compare to first photo in this string


The block has been clean, valves replaced with new seats, cylinders bored out to 2.645" crank inspected and polished, new bearings throughout
rebuilt_short_block.JPG
domed pistons, valve seats for unleaded gas


The flywheel has been surfaced and is ready for the pressure plate.
flywheel.JPG
resurfaced flywheel


So a question unrelated to the block. Is there some trick cleaning out the tube from the air filter to the block? (part No. 369991R11)

John

Bob McCarty
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Re: Bad compression

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:17 pm

I'd suggest spraying carb cleaner in it and then working a flexible wire or piece of string trimmer line through it. If it's really clogged, it may need to sit overnight with the carb cleaner in it to loosen up the crud.

Bob

Edit: That line was discontinued at some point and I know some guys leave it off and plug the holes. I don't know if that has any negative effect or not.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

ParlowMillFarm
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
Zip Code: 02738
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010
Location: Marion, Massachusetts

Re: Bad compression

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:34 pm

Hey Bob,

I noticed that it was discontinued - maybe because they got clogged all the time and someone noticed it didn't make a difference :lol:

Thanks for the tip on the carb cleaner.

John


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