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Bad compression
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-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
So a progress report.
Recap- The fuel wasn't getting to the carb, the (rubber) fuel line leaked, the fuel bowl strainer was missing, the fuel bowl cork gasket had disintegrated (and was clogging up the carb), the fuel shut of valve was pitted at the end. The gas leaked all over the fresh paint. The carb had an aftermarket lever and shaft assembly that prevented any adjustment by the idle set screw.
(All this was explained in a Governor adjustment thread, but it seems like a hijack to continue the story there.)
Carb has been rebuilt with new non-rubber needle valve, the correct lever and shaft assembly, new dust seals, screen and everything else cleaned out.
New fuel line from TM, new shut off with no leaks all installed.
Now I have stripped out the threads of the fuel line intake on the carb.
Advice appreciated and usually followed.
John
Recap- The fuel wasn't getting to the carb, the (rubber) fuel line leaked, the fuel bowl strainer was missing, the fuel bowl cork gasket had disintegrated (and was clogging up the carb), the fuel shut of valve was pitted at the end. The gas leaked all over the fresh paint. The carb had an aftermarket lever and shaft assembly that prevented any adjustment by the idle set screw.
(All this was explained in a Governor adjustment thread, but it seems like a hijack to continue the story there.)
Carb has been rebuilt with new non-rubber needle valve, the correct lever and shaft assembly, new dust seals, screen and everything else cleaned out.
New fuel line from TM, new shut off with no leaks all installed.
Now I have stripped out the threads of the fuel line intake on the carb.
Advice appreciated and usually followed.
John
- Glen
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 6139
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Wa.
Re: Bad compression
Hi,
Sounds like you are making progress with the repairs.
I think I have read on here that the guys install a thread repair coil in the carburetor inlet, when the threads are stripped out. I'm not sure if there is one of them you can send your carburetor to for the repair or not. Maybe someone will write.
Sounds like you are making progress with the repairs.
I think I have read on here that the guys install a thread repair coil in the carburetor inlet, when the threads are stripped out. I'm not sure if there is one of them you can send your carburetor to for the repair or not. Maybe someone will write.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4988
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: Bad compression
Helicoil is probably the best if you have the tools to do it or get someone to do it. Alternate fix if you have any threads left in the carb inlet you can use a brass 5/16 compression union and rethread one side of it with a 1/2 x 20 die nut (which is the carb inlet threads) and seal it in place with a sealer. Connect your 5/16 metal fuel line to the other side of the union with the nut and ferrule provided and you're good to go.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
Hey Stan,
I'll try the quick fix tomorrow. I have a lot of misc. fittings around... Seems like one in the bin should work.
John
I'll try the quick fix tomorrow. I have a lot of misc. fittings around... Seems like one in the bin should work.
John
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4988
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: Bad compression
Just be sure to have the correct threads to screw into the carb or you'll probably make bad matters worse. I've found the 5/16 compression union is the correct size just the wrong threads. The brass is pretty easy to rethread with a 1/2 x 20 die nut if you clamp the union in a vise.ParlowMillFarm wrote:Hey Stan, I'll try the quick fix tomorrow. I have a lot of misc. fittings around... Seems like one in the bin should work.
John
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
A update:
I had the inlet to the carb tapped out to fit a 1/4 pipe thread and then got an adaptor to 5/16 compression to fit the steel line.
Have gas.
Had a nice blue spark burn would not fire up. I switched the plug wires around to determine if I was 180 off and got a better response, not not really anything one would hope for. The improvement did tell me that timing was an issue, so I took off the magneto and cleaned the grease off the gears and discovered that I had not installed rotor correctly. Thought I had, but.....
Now put magneto back on. Dead battery. Tried hand crank but no dice.
Installed new battery. Primed oil pump. Started right up. Ran hydraulics up and down to get air out of the system. Feeling good.
Put on timing light. They really don't like to run on a 6 volt positive ground system do they? Got a battery to power timing light. Determined I am 22.5 degrees off TDC. Was able to get to 1.5 degrees by turning mag all the way to the block. No wonder this wouldn't fire by hand crank!
My guess is I am off a tooth or two when I installed the governor. I do have an extra gasket for that, so tomorrow I'll try a corrected installation. Guess I missed the dots on the idler gear the first time.
John
I had the inlet to the carb tapped out to fit a 1/4 pipe thread and then got an adaptor to 5/16 compression to fit the steel line.
Have gas.
Had a nice blue spark burn would not fire up. I switched the plug wires around to determine if I was 180 off and got a better response, not not really anything one would hope for. The improvement did tell me that timing was an issue, so I took off the magneto and cleaned the grease off the gears and discovered that I had not installed rotor correctly. Thought I had, but.....
Now put magneto back on. Dead battery. Tried hand crank but no dice.
Installed new battery. Primed oil pump. Started right up. Ran hydraulics up and down to get air out of the system. Feeling good.
Put on timing light. They really don't like to run on a 6 volt positive ground system do they? Got a battery to power timing light. Determined I am 22.5 degrees off TDC. Was able to get to 1.5 degrees by turning mag all the way to the block. No wonder this wouldn't fire by hand crank!
My guess is I am off a tooth or two when I installed the governor. I do have an extra gasket for that, so tomorrow I'll try a corrected installation. Guess I missed the dots on the idler gear the first time.
John
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
I took off the governor and reset it. Replaced the seal because it had too much oil on the wrong side to be considered effective at doing its job. Also changed the oil.
Reset the magneto and started up the tractor - a horrible clanking sound from the front (I thought perhaps the fan was catching on something) and before I could shut it off it shut itself off.
Checked the fan, cranked it by hand a couple of times to see if in fact the fan was striking something or the engine was frozen. That was ok.
I took off the magneto to see if the new seal was in place and to check the rotor to make sure it was intact. No problems.
Started up the tractor; again a horrible clanking sound from the front and before I could shut it off it shut itself off.
While I was checking the carb to see if a screw came loose and was sucked up into the engine (all screws accounted for), I remembered that when I took off the governor, I also flipped the generator out of the way and lost the spacer washer.
Lost as in I looked for it for a while while I was putting everything together and couldn't find it. (I don't remember putting it down anywhere)
A lost spacer washer in the front housing might cause my noise issue.(???)
so...
1. Is there a way to confirm theory? (short of taking off front cover)
2. Is there a way to retrieve washer? (short of taking off front cover)
John
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:54 pm
- Zip Code: 54521
- Tractors Owned: 1952 farmall cub
1982 lawn cheif
Re: Bad compression
Not to highjack this thread but What is considered "new" compression? Like off the showroom floor I know 100lbs is "good".
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
Hey eiebe,
You can hijack my thread if you come pull off my front pully tomorrow
The service manual, GSS-1411, which you can get through this site, gives 120 lbs, at cranking speed, for new compression.
John
You can hijack my thread if you come pull off my front pully tomorrow
The service manual, GSS-1411, which you can get through this site, gives 120 lbs, at cranking speed, for new compression.
John
- Glen
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 6139
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Wa.
Re: Bad compression
Hi,
I guess nobody replied to you John. Without being there to hear the engine run, I don't know what the noise is. Maybe someone has an idea.
I guess nobody replied to you John. Without being there to hear the engine run, I don't know what the noise is. Maybe someone has an idea.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
Thanks Glen,
At this point I'm removing the front cover hoping I find a washer in there. Then all I'll need are some new gaskets to get back in business ( already on order)
John
At this point I'm removing the front cover hoping I find a washer in there. Then all I'll need are some new gaskets to get back in business ( already on order)
John
-
- 5+ Years
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:54 pm
- Zip Code: 54521
- Tractors Owned: 1952 farmall cub
1982 lawn cheif
Re: Bad compression
ParlowMillFarm wrote:Hey eiebe,
You can hijack my thread if you come pull off my front pully tomorrow
The service manual, GSS-1411, which you can get through this site, gives 120 lbs, at cranking speed, for new compression.
John
Awesome I have a service manual but it is vague if you were closer I'd love to pull that pully
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
This is from the manual. I just read on a different post that the domed Pistons can jack this up. Maybe someone can tell us to what.
John
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Bad compression
Update:
As I mentioned I had a bad rattling sound.
I removed the front cover looking for a lost washer. No washer.
I removed the oil pan. No washer.
I removed the hydraulic pump and left the fan assembly off and started the engine. After several false starts due to a poorly placed oil filter gasket, start up with no rattle.
I put the hydraulic pump back on, start up, no rattle.
Leaves the fan assembly as a culprit. I did place a metal overflow tube between the radiator and the fan during waiting on the rebuild. This does not contact during hand cranking. Could the minuscule amount the fan flexes during use be hitting my new tube?
John
As I mentioned I had a bad rattling sound.
I removed the front cover looking for a lost washer. No washer.
I removed the oil pan. No washer.
I removed the hydraulic pump and left the fan assembly off and started the engine. After several false starts due to a poorly placed oil filter gasket, start up with no rattle.
I put the hydraulic pump back on, start up, no rattle.
Leaves the fan assembly as a culprit. I did place a metal overflow tube between the radiator and the fan during waiting on the rebuild. This does not contact during hand cranking. Could the minuscule amount the fan flexes during use be hitting my new tube?
John
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- Team Cub
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- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MN
Re: Bad compression
ParlowMillFarm wrote:Could the minuscule amount the fan flexes during use be hitting my new tube?
If it does, you should be able to see a tiny shiny spot on the tube.
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