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Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

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FarmallCubGal
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:40 pm
Zip Code: 03031
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1948 Farmall H
Twitter ID: @Actenglsk
Location: Amherst, NH

Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby FarmallCubGal » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:21 pm

My newly acquired 48 Cub ran great until I mucked up the carburetor and had to rebuild it. After that, I could only get it started with the hand crank - and that takes some doing as it's pretty resistive ...although I have nothing to compare it to. I'm petite and have toothpicks for arms, but can get it going; sometimes it fires up beautifully the first time, sometimes it's after 20 tries. Once it's started, it runs good. But, it seems that once it's good and warmed up, and driven for ten minutes or so, it just misses a few times and quits. I have to wait for it to get completely cool before it will start again. Any ideas? I imagine it has something to do with the carburetor seeing as that's the one thing that changed. It has new spark plugs and distributor wires from the previous opener and the points looked good to me. I looked at the timing and can hear the magneto click when the notch is lined up with the pointer. Voltage is good on the battery. Thanks in advance for help! :tractor:
- Lisa
FarmallCubGal :tractor:

"Where there's a will, there's a way"
"Life is what you make of it. Always has been, always will be" - Grandma Moses
"You can't own too many of the little Cotter pins"

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Bob McCarty
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 11817
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Zip Code: 80501
Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: CO, Longmont

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:26 pm

The symptom of it stopping after use suggests a failing coil. The coil cools down and then the Cub restarts. Are you saying that it will hand crank start, but not start with the starter? To check fuel flow through the carb, remove the main jet (brass hex head on the side), turn on the gas and make sure you have a good steady stream for at least several cups worth. If someone can help you, run it until it stops and then see if you have a good blue spark out of the coil or at a spark plug.

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4974
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby staninlowerAL » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:30 pm

Just to be sure, did the problem of engine dying after warmup and running a bit only start after the carb work? If so, I would suspect a fuel restriction. It could be a bit of trash in the jet or anywhere between the carb and the tank. You can check for fuel flow by removing the drain on the carb and catch about a quart or more in a container. If the flow starts well and tapers off then look for the restriction. Things to look for: Screen in the carb inlet, any inline fuel filter, trash/sediment in the bowl under the tank, restriction in the fuel shutoff valve, tank not venting properly just to name a few. You can also check the fire from the coil. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and check for a crisp blue spark from the coil wire held about a quarter inch from a clean ground. If weak spark, suspect the coil. It's typical of a weak coil to be hard to start and quit producing adequate spark when the engine gets hot. (I just saw Bob's reply, he types faster than me and says it quicker :lol: )
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

FarmallCubGal
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:40 pm
Zip Code: 03031
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1948 Farmall H
Twitter ID: @Actenglsk
Location: Amherst, NH

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby FarmallCubGal » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am

Thank you Bob & staninlowerAL for your help! I will pursue both issues you raised - probably tomorrow when it's a tad warmer outside.

And yes, Bob, the tractor starts with the crank (eventually) but the starter hasn't worked since I replaced the carburetor. (!). I haven't yet pulled the starter to see if it has an issue as prefer to deal with one challenge at a time. :-)

StaninlowerAL, the problem with the stalling did occur after I replaced the carb. It does have a new inline gas filter that the previous owner installed. Looks good and clean but I reckon I could have messed something up w the carb. This was my first carb repair and I'm definitely on a steep learning curve.

It does blow a little blue smoke now that I don't believe it did before. But that seems to go away when it's good and warmed up.

Thanks again
- Lisa
FarmallCubGal :tractor:

"Where there's a will, there's a way"
"Life is what you make of it. Always has been, always will be" - Grandma Moses
"You can't own too many of the little Cotter pins"

Bob McCarty
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 11817
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Zip Code: 80501
Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: CO, Longmont

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:49 am

Lisa, There are inline filters that will not work with gravity feed systems, but only with fuel pumps. I'd suggest checking fuel flow first, the filter may be the problem. Taking the carb on and off should not of affected the starter. Check to make sure you have a fully charged battery and that all connections are clean, including the ground and the connection to the switch on the starter. No point hand cranking when you can let electricity do the work for you. :D

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4974
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby staninlowerAL » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:03 pm

Agree with Bob, check the fuel flow. There are several points in the fuel delivery system that could be giving trouble. If it still has the OEM fuel shutoff valve and sediment bowl, check the screen above the bowl if the fuel does not flow freely from the carb drain as Bob suggested.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

User avatar
Glen
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Posts: 6096
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Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby Glen » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:54 pm

Hi,
If you are going to clean the fuel strainer under the gas tank, like Stan said above, and if the Cub has Touch Control, it is easier to get at the strainer if you move the arms to the rear or down position before taking apart the strainer. Here is a picture.
The strainer bowl has a gasket at the top, they sometimes need replacing if they are old, they don't seal again after taking the bowl off.
There is a fine screen above the gasket, it might need replacing, they get dirty or tear. They have them at TM Tractor, here are listings below, if you want to see them.
The inline fuel filter might need removing if it is slowing the fuel flow. They had only the strainer originally, and a steel pipe from the strainer to the carburetor.
The 4th link below is a page from the Cub parts book showing the strainer, on the right side of the page.
The idle mixture screw on top of the carburetor needs to be adjusted so the engine runs right. The Cub would have originally had the IH carburetor, if it still does, It tells how to adjust it in the owner's manual, usually it needs to be open 1 - 1 1/2 turns. It is supposed to be adjusted when the engine is warm, not sure if yours runs long enough to get warm, but adjusting it might help. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/426fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/235fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/864fp.htm

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-31.jpg
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staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4974
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:02 pm

Lisa, just to be sure we are clear on checking the fuel flow at the carb drain, I suggest you allow at least a quart or more to flow into a container before declaring it is OK. Sometimes it will flow well in the beginning then slow down after a bit.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

FarmallCubGal
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:40 pm
Zip Code: 03031
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1948 Farmall H
Twitter ID: @Actenglsk
Location: Amherst, NH

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby FarmallCubGal » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:38 am

Thanks, all, for the information and advice! I'll take a photo of the online fuel filter I have and post it at my next opportunity.
- Lisa
FarmallCubGal :tractor:

"Where there's a will, there's a way"
"Life is what you make of it. Always has been, always will be" - Grandma Moses
"You can't own too many of the little Cotter pins"

Matt Kirsch
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Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:54 pm

How exactly does the starter "not work?"

Is it cranking the engine over but it won't start? Does it not crank the engine over at all?

The first may have something to do with the carburetor. The second has nothing to do with the carburetor, and is an electrical issue.

Bob McCarty
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 11817
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Zip Code: 80501
Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: CO, Longmont

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:26 pm

I don't think a picture of the inline filter will help determine if it's for a gravity fed or fuel pump. The best way to check fuel flow is to remove the jet and catch it in a can for a while.

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

FarmallCubGal
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:40 pm
Zip Code: 03031
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1948 Farmall H
Twitter ID: @Actenglsk
Location: Amherst, NH

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby FarmallCubGal » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:21 pm

Fuel flow issue finally resolved (or so I hope). When pulled the sediment assembly off the tank, I could see the passage from the tank to the sediment cup was ~80% blocked. Reckon tractor was consuming fuel faster than it could be supplied? Maybe that's why it would restart after sitting a while, as that would give time for the sediment cup to refill with fuel. Read that in a post here somewhere...
- Lisa
FarmallCubGal :tractor:

"Where there's a will, there's a way"
"Life is what you make of it. Always has been, always will be" - Grandma Moses
"You can't own too many of the little Cotter pins"

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4974
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Hard to Start w Crank, Stalls When Warmed Up

Postby staninlowerAL » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:54 pm

FarmallCubGal wrote:Fuel flow issue finally resolved (or so I hope). When pulled the sediment assembly off the tank, I could see the passage from the tank to the sediment cup was ~80% blocked. Reckon tractor was consuming fuel faster than it could be supplied? Maybe that's why it would restart after sitting a while, as that would give time for the sediment cup to refill with fuel. Read that in a post here somewhere...

Yep, sounds like that is part (maybe all) of the stalling issue. If you decide to remove the valve for cleaning everything up, obviously empty the tank, then the valve can be removed from the tank. Note position of the outlet so the fuel line will be able to reconnect. The OEM valve fuel passage is not a straight through, it enters from the top then runs horizontal for a short distance then drops down into the glass bowl. There might be restrictions in the passageway that you cannot see. The shutoff lever can be removed by opening the lever and unscrewing the packing nut, might have to work them both together to get it out. The valve is a double stop operation, it seals in full open for on and full closed for off. This is all a bit easier to accomplish with the tank removed but it can be done in place. The most difficult part is getting the valve unscrewed from the tank.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)


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