Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

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inairam
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby inairam » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:21 pm

I am in the camp that the 6 volt positive ground system is fine for the Cub. If you are starting from scratch, the generator failed, or you have a large electrical load you want to add to the Cub go for the 12v alternator. If you are just trying to get the Cub to charge the battery the 6 volts are fine. However in my opinion the regulator is the weak link in the system

To summarize the generator regulator trouble shooting flow chart: 1) clean up connections; 2) check/replace ammeter; 3) replace regulator; 4) replace regulator; 5) replace generator. The regulator is 40% of the trouble shooting. In my limited experience with failed 6V charging systems after cleaning connections the problem has always been the regulator. I have yet to have a failed generator or ammeter. I have tried different regulators currently available from different suppliers and both US and overseas made.

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I have seen the resistor between the Field terminal and ground fail and corrosion forms a connection between the field terminal and the battery terminal. Not to mentioned issues with the points inside.

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I have tried solid state regulator from a company called Clover Systems on two of my 6 volt cubs. The units are ~$110 so 3 times the cost of the cheap regulators and 1.5 times the cost of US regulators. The owner of Clover Systems, Gordon Rudd has a 60s Jag and got tired of replacing regulators so developed the product. http://cloversystems.com/products/other ... regulator/. He offers the models in all of the flavors 6 & 12 volts P & N ground. The units can handle up to 55 Amps, getting jumped by a 12 volt battery and the discharge of the field current is done with a high power diode and not an external resister. It also starts charging at any RPM the generator produces a voltage above battery voltage. The electro mechanical regulators have set points. It also fits inside the standard regulator housing. His tech support is very good and fast. I do not have any connection with Clover or Gordon.
There are other solid state units out there, usually for motorcycles, but you should check the rated amps.


Below I show replacing the electro mechanical guts with the module from Clover. I have also taken some steps to reduce the corrosion and stop to shorting between terminals by adding 100% silicon at various places. Not shown I also added silicon rubber ( orange sheets) between the module and the solder connections. This adds some insulation and tighten if fit once the cover is on.
Attachments
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insidesodder.png
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When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby inairam » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:24 pm

some more photos of the regulator back together.

I also dropped some solder on the crimpted ground connections. The corrosion to me looks like galvanic corrosion and may be due to resistance between the riveted connections.

At work we are very concerned about ground. Some of our equipment is used on customer machines made out of that 80/20 aluminum extrusion. The bolted connections are OK for a normal electrical circuits for motors and lights, but will cause our equipment not to work. We like a direct low resistance path to ground.
Attachments
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Last edited by inairam on Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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schmibm
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Location: Janesville, IA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby schmibm » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:26 pm

Do you remove the guts from the Clover regulator to place it in the standard regulator housing? How much space does it take?

My goal has been to retrofit an electronic regulator inside the original small regular housing. The original regulator housings are much smaller than the housing you show and the ones available today. Can you show a picture of the Clover housing next to the standard housing so we can compare sizes?

Thank you!!!
1949 Project Cub
1955 Cub Lo-Boy "Jack"
1957 Cub Lo-Boy "Mac"
1957 Cub with 5' Woods Belly Mower "James"
24 other Farmalls A thru SMTA.

DickB
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
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variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
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Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby DickB » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:43 am

Two days too late on this thread! I'm picking up a new US made voltage regulator today and installing it. Three days ago I sent back my 2nd voltage regulator that was made in India -- both failed, the last one in some 30 minutes. I'm going to keep checking on this thread which seems pretty interesting for one with my VR history. Thanks for posting it.

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby inairam » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:51 am

Schmibm,

I did not remove the guts. I sent Clover the first unit. The first one they were still offering a service of doing the wiring. Now they do not. So I knew it fit for the second one that I did. I would contact Gordon at Clover with some photos and dimensions and see what he says. He may have another unit that fits. There is a lot of detailed info on the Clove units on the link in my first post.

If the X - Y or foot print dimensions are the same and just the height is different you have a good shot at it working. The Clover unit sits in the regulator angled slightly to fit between the mounting posts for the cover. As I mentioned, I used some silicone rubber to take up some inside space. There is more height clearance than foot print clearance.

The Clover units comes in two versions one with the wires out the side and one out the bottom. The Dimensions: DRM = 2.4″ x 2.2″ x 1.2″ and DRM-HP = 3.2″ x 2.2″ x 1.5″. I made the connections inside the old regulator by using the side wire model and folding the wire and the unit over the connections. You could just as easily used the bottom wire exit model and made the connections outside the unit on the bottom to save some inside clearance. I wanted inside connections because of my concerns about corrosion as mentioned. You could also try a the side wire model and mount it on it on its side. I did not check that arrangement.

Are you talking about a cut out rely with the smaller case? There are some sold state cut our relies out there which are smaller, but I have not tried them.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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schmibm
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Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Janesville, IA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby schmibm » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:28 pm

No, I am not referring to a cut out relay. The old IH regulators were smaller on the Cubs. My '55 Lo-Boy still has the original factory regulator on it and it still works great. It is about 2/3s the size of all the other regulators I have.
1949 Project Cub
1955 Cub Lo-Boy "Jack"
1957 Cub Lo-Boy "Mac"
1957 Cub with 5' Woods Belly Mower "James"
24 other Farmalls A thru SMTA.

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Solid state regulator 6 volt charging systems

Postby inairam » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 pm

I found these photos in an instruction email Clove sent to me showing how to install and wire. This unit has the wire coming out the bottom and made the connections to the VR base on the bottom. I used the model that the wires came out the side and made the connections inside the VR. Another option
Attachments
regbase.png
regwire.png
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!


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