Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

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DickB
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Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
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hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:40 pm

I had to remove a bad voltage regulator. I forgot to disconnect the pos. ground at the battery before removing and there were some sparks upon removal. I had no idea that this was bad, but perhaps it was (any one of the regulator wires could/did touch the mount for the regulator).

Now with a new voltage regulator in place and ready for polarizing I discovered that I had no electricity to spark the polarizing. Moreover I discovered that the light would not go on. I checked the fuse and it is good. Checked the battery--pole to pole and good. Checked ground strap to battery - good. Just no electricity.

Did I ruin the generator? Burn out a wire...where and how to find? Not today's happy camper.

What did I do? How to figure out what is going on? (I've got a week of decent weather in the open air barn to work this out.)

Holding my breath here!

Dick

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:25 pm

Took hood off. Disconnected A and F posts on generator and they are linked, that is on the continuity test on my meter there's a buzz sound meaning the same wire or...fried together. Still wondering though why this would kill light circuit. Thinking of emptying wallet for new generator, but await Cub expert comments.

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Glen
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Posts: 1917
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby Glen » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:04 pm

Hi,
I doubt that it hurt the generator.
Since you have the hood off, use a voltmeter and test the wires one at a time, and see if they are carrying power.
If you have the original wiring, the system gets power from the wire going from the starter post to the ammeter.
If you have a 1955 Cub owner's manual, look at the wiring pics on pages 40 and 41, page 41 tells what the numbers on page 40 are. Then test the wires one at a time from the beginning at the starter switch.
A dirty or corroded wire end can stop the power flow too. You could take them off one at a time and clean them with fine sandpaper while you have the hood off.
Here are the pages below. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-38.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-39.jpg

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:15 pm

It was a good suggestion Glen and thanks. Most things checked out. Voltage good at discharge/charge meter and at pull-push on/off switch. Voltage at starter motor okay. No light now connected to the wire for the forward lights, but voltage showing on that wire (why doesn't rear light come on?). But still no way to polarize the new voltage regulator. Yet again my suspicion is that I accidentally and in a milli-second fried the generator when I forgot to disconnect the positive ground strap at the battery and removed the bad VR from India. I think that the base of the VR slid along the mounting base and probably due to poor handling on my part connected "gen" and other connectors together--sparks let me know about this. Again, I'll say that A and F terminals on the generator are electrically the same now--doesn't seem right but I'll ask local suppliers and others. I'll make a few phone calls tomorrow regarding the generator and take things from there.

tst
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Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby tst » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:57 pm

If you have battery voltage at the starter and a good ground the starter should engage,it does not need any source except the battery & cables to work, so make sure that works 1st before looking at other issues

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Glen
5+ Years
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Posts: 1917
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby Glen » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:48 pm

Hi,
If you checked the voltage in the rear light wire, and it had voltage, the rear light could have burned out, or lost it's ground.
If it is a ground problem, try loosening the light mounting bolt nut under the light, and turning the light all directions some, and see if it comes on again.
If you have the original flat back lights, there is a little ground screw, and ground strap from inside the light housing, below the screw where the power wire hooks on, it could be the ground problem too. If it is rusty there, take out the screw and sand the metal and clean it up.
Here is a pic from TM Tractor showing the ground screw.
The Bat and L wires at the voltage regulator should have power whenever the battery is connected. If they don't, you will need to find why.
Be sure the starter still turns the engine, like Tim said above. :)
Attachments
Cub light 4.jpg

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:45 am

Tim and Glen. The engine turns over. But ammeter does not indicate discharge when turning over engine. That has me thinking maybe the ammeter got fried. I don't know how to check it out--a voltmeter on the two terminals probably just shows the battery voltage. Also I'm wanting to know if the light switch went bad, how to check it out...not the wiring which is what I think I checked yesterday.

Here's a wiring diagram, in color!, of the set up:
.jpg


I suspect the switch and meter need removing and for that I think there's a bolt on LH side that holds the "dashboard" to the engine/tranny. A switch, once disconnected should be easy enough to check out. While the diagram shows a fuse (20A) next to the switch, I think this is the main fuse for the tractor (note the light brown line going from the ignition switch to the fuse).

Got ideas? All ears here.

Dick

tst
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Posts: 2607
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:08 pm
Zip Code: 12514
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby tst » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:57 am

follow the chart, no guessing this way
Attachments
08-Regulatortroubleshootingchartrev.gif

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:04 pm

New ammeter in after which polarization worked (a spark!), rear light worked. Tomorrow will reassemble hood, hook things up and see how it goes. Seems that when that bad VR slipped out of my clumsy hands and grounded one or more of it's terminals that it sent a surge of power to the ammeter and fried it.

Thanks to Glen and Tim for offering helpful suggestions.

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:49 am

Glen wrote:Hi,
I doubt that it hurt the generator.


SO RIGHT, Glen. Hooked it up this morning and the new ammeter shows the needle on the + side...charging. Over and Out! Pheww.

DickB
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
Zip Code: 01026
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub Fast Hitch
sickle bar
land plow
harrows
snow plow
manure spreader
hayrake, rope pull
variety of cultivators
Wagner WM-1 bucket loader
rear carrier -- homemade
Location: Berkshire hills in western MA

Re: Now no electrical. What did I do, how to fix?

Postby DickB » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:09 am

Never content to toss-and-forget a bum part, I took a look inside the bad ammeter. There are two brass arms that hold the little needle in place. Each arm has a notch in it...what I take to be a "fuse" sort of thing. One of the notches had a break in it, so I soldered it (would not hold for long), and put a small battery across the two terminals and the meter worked. Getting it apart required destructive separating of metal banding at the glass, so this was not a repair-and-reuse adventure, just a curiosity trip.


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