Rear Axle Seal Retainer

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cook50_03
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Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby cook50_03 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:37 am

I am rebuilding the final drives on my '51 Cub. I have read through the how to from Billy E Bob, as well as a couple others on here (another really good one was done by Stanton). Anytime these reference the rear axle retainer and oil seal (reusing the old retainer instead of buying a new seal/retainer assembly) they have had to press the seal into the retainer. The seal I received from TM (SKF CR21211) just drops into and bottoms out against the back of the retainer. There is no real pressing for me to do. Is it enough to just proceed with this seal in the retainer this way, or should there be a snug fit against the walls of the retainer? Maybe this seal isn't compatible with this retainer?

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg


Thanks guys,
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby ricky racer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:40 am

If it's not a press fit, you will get leakage around the outside of the seal.
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby inairam » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:35 am

You may want to look at a LOCTITE 638 Retaining Compound. I purchased a timken seal from TM for the governor seal and there was a coating on the OD of the seal. I have purchased SKF seals for the hydraulic pump that had something similar. Tell Ron at TM. He may have received an order of uncoated seals that was wrong.
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:01 am

I forwarded a copy of this thread to Ron, at TM.
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:48 pm

Ron checked the ones he had in stock, and they all press fit, into his retainers. Could your retainer be damaged?
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cook50_03
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby cook50_03 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:07 pm

It could be the retainer, but I had no issue getting it off and it shows no sign of damage. I measured the bore of the retainer and the seal and got

Seal outside diameter:3.06"
Retainer inside bore:3.13"

I have not taken off the right side yet so I cannot compare with my other retainer. The replacement seal is supposed to fit tight to the outside of the retainer, correct?

I may need to check out the Loctite as recommended above. That or get another seal or retainer. Sure don't want to do all of this twice!

Ed - Thanks for checking with Ron for me.

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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:10 pm

How was the fit of the old seal in the retainer? What is the number on the old seal?
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cook50_03
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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby cook50_03 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:43 pm

The old seal and the retainer was made together like in this picture from TM.

image.jpg


I have already cut the rubber away and am left with just the metal retainer now. It is my understanding that I had the option of replacing the whole retainer/seal assembly, or I could just remove the old seal material and press in a new seal. The latter option being cheaper and reusing existing parts, that is the option I chose.

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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby tst » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:35 pm

3.066 is the correct size for the replacement seal, your retainer has a problem,I change a lot of these using a cr21211 seal with of of 3.066 with no issues

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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:24 pm

Hi,
Some seal retainers had a regular type oil seal pressed in them that fit tight, like a regular oil seal should fit. Some retainers were made with a seal built in, it had no replaceable seal.
If the seals won't fit tight, I would send them back and buy the new retainers with seals.
Not sure, but if it had the one piece retainer and seal, probably someone replaced it before, I think the one piece retainer and seal is newer than 1951.
Here is a listing at TM Tractor. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/393fp.htm

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Re: Rear Axle Seal Retainer

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:02 am

I'm not sure where this change came into play. The original part number for this seal was 350 822 R91. The 1979 edition of the parts catalog still lists the same number. I have a new one on hand, still sealed in an IH package that shows 350 822 R92. The contents of this package is the one piece style and is stamped as "National" and "6180SSO". What this doesn't explain is whether:
1) the one piece design is the result of the change from R91 to R92, meaning all tractors were built with the press-in seal, or
2) IH gave the original spec to National and National designed to form, fit, and function while disregarding details of the original drawing.

If #2 is the case, the change from R91 to R92 is still an unknown. It could be something as simple as a material change that none of us could see from inspection of the parts.

Maybe someone with more exposure to the very late tractors has seen more of the one-piece seals.

By the way, the 3.06 OD is correct for the replacement seals.


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