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6 volt slow turnover

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The Riot
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby The Riot » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:18 am

Hi Stanton,
On one of my first replies I noted that I won't be able to do any of the corrective actions until next weekend since "Big Red" is about 4 hours away and I don't have daily access. As I look through the thread I don't see that post, Oh well, probably didn't hit the submit button.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to everybody on the findings and results, I will try the remedies and report back ASAP.

You are absolutely correct, a bunch of really good info in this thread.

Thanks again to all,

The Riot

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Eugene
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Eugene » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:17 am

One more easy check. Disconnect the negative cable from the battery. Multi-meter on ohms. Check the ohms from the battery cable end to the terminal on the starter. Checking for internal corrosion in the cable. You want to see a low ohms reading.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Stevetractor » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:33 pm

Yes I should have been more clear u are polarizing generator not vr. Also I agree with other members to make sure wiring is in top shape, clean connections, soldiered terminals, correct gauge wire, and double check correct connections. Parts and owners manual show really good schematics just make sure u are reading correct one for your tractor. Remember someone may have changed something from original before and u may have to change it back. Chipmaker is right timing light on these small engines make a big difference. Don't throw out your old vr though. If u go with a solid state one it can hide inside and fussy people like me won't notice :lol:

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby The Riot » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:06 pm

OK everybody, I got a response from Clover Systems and as you indicated they do Solid State VRs. They offer 2 units the DRM is $103.75 and he larger unit the DRM-HP is $117.61.
They do suggest removing the guts from the old mechanical VR and install the SS VR in the same case for those of us how prefer the OE look.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to convert to the SS regulator and do away with the problematic Mechanical VR and I do plan to install it inside the old case.

There's a couple of things I can't seem to identify:
1) What amp rating do I need, the DRM is for up to 30A and the larger DRM-HP is for 35A to 55A
2) I don't have a clue if my generator is an A-Circuit or B-Circuit
Does anyone know the answers to these questions?


Thanks,
The Riot

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:16 pm

A-circuit and 30 amps is enough.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby inairam » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:31 pm

the DRM 30 amp unit will fit and is still well above the generator output. here is the order page http://cloversystems.com/products/other ... lator/drm/ can you read the tag on he generator?
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Don B. » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:13 am

Alright, so now I am sure I must be missing something.
What I have concluded from this thread is that, on my '48, I could go to a Brillman's solid state cutout at $20 or replace the VR mechanical guts with the solid state guts at $104.
Where's my Tylenol?...
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Slim140 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:41 am

Don B. wrote:Alright, so now I am sure I must be missing something.
What I have concluded from this thread is that, on my '48, I could go to a Brillman's solid state cutout at $20 or replace the VR mechanical guts with the solid state guts at $104.
Where's my Tylenol?...

You don't need Tylenol, you need to covert to 12V and you will have no more headaches! Yeah it will cost you a little bit to do it but in the long run you will sleep better at night! Here's the alternator with built in regulator for $71.39 and that has free shipping! All you need after that is a battery and light bulbs. Recently put this on Walt and wish I would have done it years ago instead of spending money on the 6V system.
https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/c ... 12180.html
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?

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1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:52 am

Don

If you have a cutout relay and it is not working your simplest option is to replace the cutout relay. There is no real need to go to the VR.

If you have a voltage regulator and it needs to be replaced you should consider the solid state one because the mechanical VRs on the market have low reliability/ life.

We are getting off typic. The slow turn over could be a weak battery which could be the battery needs to be replaced or the charging system is not working. But there have been a number of other suggestions in the thread to try before you get to the replacing of part or all of the charging system.
Last edited by inairam on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Eugene » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:05 am

But there have been a number of other suggestions in the thread to try before you get to the replacing of part or all of the charging system.
Yup. Diagnose the slow starter problem before spending money on, perhaps unneeded expensive parts.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Don B. » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:15 am

My apologies to The Riot for the hijack.
I will say that there was an 11-month old Tractor Supply battery in my '51 when I bought it. Poor cranking. A guy at Autozone said, "it checks okay but something is weird." - whatever that means. I replaced the battery and my cranking was good.
Of course, check and rule out all the easy/cheap stuff first.
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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Stevetractor » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:52 am

Just my opinion 6v to 12v conversions are unnecessary. They only mask underlying issues. 12v on 6v starter equals trouble. Burnt up armatures and broken starter shafts. Good connections, proper gauge wire, solid state vr or cut out depending on your tractor, and a good battery. 6 v works fine even in dead of winter. Only my 2 cents.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:25 am

The only reasons you burn up armatures is because you're cranking way too long, or because your starter was already damaged and ready to fail at any moment anyway. A tractor should start right up, with at most 5-10 seconds of cranking. That is not enough to damage a 6V starter on 12V. If you are cranking more than that, your tractor needs a tuneup, or your technique needs some development.

Really a 12V conversion is nothing to fear.

That said, charge your battery with a battery charger, and eliminate the generator as a potential variable in this issue. Whether the generator works or not is irrelevant to your slow cranking problem when you start with a fully charged battery.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby robertst » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:43 pm

If no one has mentioned size of cables can make a big difference size 1or 2,clean armature and put new bushings and brushes in starter.

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Re: 6 volt slow turnover

Postby The Riot » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:02 pm

Thanks All, lot's of great suggestions. This topic has some pretty strong interest so I'm guessing it's rather common. I will be able to get to Big Red tomorrow and will go through a progression, starting with going direct to the starter with jumper cables. If she still doesn't turn properly I will then put a charger on the battery and try again once the battery is fully charged. Once I get a clear picture on the starter and battery I will begin eliminating potential problem areas, i.e. good clean contacts, etc, etc.

While in this mode I plan to put a rebuild kit on my starter, brushes, bushings, and clean the armature well, I also plan to convert to a solid state Voltage Regulator, I'm looking at the ammeter and may need to change it out and I might go with a new battery before it's all said and done.

I should be able to post findings and solutions over the weekend or by Monday.

Thanks again,
The Riot


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