Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Crimson Tim
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George will follow in a few weeks.
Circle of Safety: Y

Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Crimson Tim » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:06 pm

Good morning, All,
I have a question for all of you with more Cub hydraulic experience that myself (which is most of you).
I notice that the Touch Control block has a few extra plugs in the side. I know from lurking around the site for a long time that these can be opened for cleaning to more thoroughly get into various passages into the block.

My question is, do any of these passages open up into the main, non-pressurized hydraulic fluid reservoir, or a passage that is hydraulically equivalent? The reason I ask is that I am interested in setting up a sight glass so I can visually check the fluid level and condition without the bother of taking out the fill bolt & sticking a bent wire dipstick in. I'll also incorporate a fill plug that is accessible.
This should be very easy to do. I just need access to the non-pressurized reservoir both below and above the fluid level, and I already have access above the fluid level via the existing fill plug.

I would much prefer to do this without drilling & tapping any new holes in the block. I'd like to keep the process completely reversible, and without making any permanent changes, if possible.

I guess I should ask another question, as well: is hydraulic fluid UV stable? I.e., if I have a sight glass, then I am exposing the hydraulic fluid to the sun a little bit at a time. Is this going to be asking for trouble? If so, I have some thoughts on how to do this that keep out almost all the sun, but I'd rather stick to the simpler version if it will not cause problems.

Of course, since I just rebuilt my pump yesterday, I hopefully won't have to refill the TC EVERY time I want to use the tractor any more. That will make this less of a priority. Still, it should be easy to do and it would be nice to be able to do a quick, visual check.

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 6696
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:14 pm

You shouldn't need a sight glass, now that the leak is fixed.
Ed
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

Crimson Tim
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George will follow in a few weeks.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Crimson Tim » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:42 pm

True, though I shouldn't need an amp meter of oil pressure gauge either if everything is behaving. It may still be worthwhile to keep an eye on things and head off any issues that may develop...

For what it's worth, the pump rebuild was easy, even though the how-to is broken. Wish I'd known to have a spare key on hand for the drive gear, as it's worn badly, but then the gear itself is pretty badly wallered from being loose on the shaft. I will have to get back in there someday to fix that, but it's working well now. I didn't check the hydraulic fluid after working it today, but I did check the oil level, and it seemed not to have moved, so that's a good thing.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13797
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:53 pm

To the original question, the only such opening I know of is at the drain plug. The plug in the suction side of the manifold may fit the bill but could cause some undesired behavior when running. Sun light shouldn't bother the hydraulic fluid.

User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
Posts: 22897
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
Location: Mo, Potosi

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:58 am

I wondered about the drain plug when I first read the question, but as many people have learned through the surprise of an oil bath, the touch control system is sealed and builds pressure when in use. If a sight glass is tapped into the drain it will blow oil out the top when the system gets warm from use, unless the top returns to the system and the sight glass can stand a few pounds of pressure.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 6696
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:23 pm

Crimson Tim wrote:True, though I shouldn't need an amp meter of oil pressure gauge either if everything is behaving. It may still be worthwhile to keep an eye on things and head off any issues that may develop...

For what it's worth, the pump rebuild was easy, even though the how-to is broken. Wish I'd known to have a spare key on hand for the drive gear, as it's worn badly, but then the gear itself is pretty badly wallered from being loose on the shaft. I will have to get back in there someday to fix that, but it's working well now. I didn't check the hydraulic fluid after working it today, but I did check the oil level, and it seemed not to have moved, so that's a good thing.

Not the same, oil pressure drops too low, and the engine is ruined. Generator dies, and the tractor may quit, on the other end of the field. (That's where mine would chose to quit, anyway)
Ed
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

Crimson Tim
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George will follow in a few weeks.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Crimson Tim » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:57 pm

I knew you'd have the answer, Jim. So the drain plug.... is on the opposite side of the case. Hmm... that promises to be a bit of a clunky solution... though if I put the site glass/fill/drain, etc on the right side, it would keep it out of the way of the rod that ties the front rockshaft to the rear rockshaft...

So there's no breather anywhere. The tractor can be run with the fill plug out such as for filling and bleeding, but when sealed, the "non-pressurized" side will develop some pressure due to thermal expansion. Good to know. I haven't experienced that for myself, yet.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13797
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:13 pm

The oil level in the reservoir will change when running the rockshaft from one end of the stroke to the other. That is why you fill it with the rockshaft in the rear position - level is highest. If you fill it with the rockshaft forward, put the plug in, and rotate the rockshaft back; it will put pressure in the reservoir.

Crimson Tim
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George will follow in a few weeks.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Crimson Tim » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:11 pm

I know the sight glass would only have meaning when the rock shaft is toward the rear. I'm ok with that.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13797
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:27 pm

I was attempting to address your pressure comment, it isn't just a consequence of thermal effects.

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17082
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Eugene » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:32 pm

I built the reservoir for my wood splitter. The hydraulic filler opening is pretty good size. To check the hydraulic fluid level, I remove the cap and look in the tank.

When planning your hydraulic system, consider that two way cylinders use/move almost identical amounts of hydraulic fluid to extend and retract the piston. So, once the hydraulic system is full, extend the piston, almost the same amount of hydraulic oil returns to the reservoir.

Sight glass. Unless you are leaking hydraulic fluid, look in the reservoir every once in a while.

Single action cylinder, need to consider the amount of fluid to extend the piston and the amount returning to the reservoir when the piston is retracted, plus reserve fluid.
I have an excuse. CRS.

brewzalot
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:10 pm
Zip Code: 53105
Tractors Owned: '57 cub Loboy
'61 cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wisconsin, Burlington

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby brewzalot » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Eugene wrote:When planning your hydraulic system, consider that two way cylinders use/move almost identical amounts of hydraulic fluid to extend and retract the piston. So, once the hydraulic system is full, extend the piston, almost the same amount of hydraulic oil returns to the reservoir.


You did say "almost" but on a 2 way cylinder the amount of oil returning has to be different in the 2 directions do to the area the piston rod takes up on the one side . This allows more power(at the same psi) on the extend stroke than the retract stroke for the same reason. (area x psi is greater on the side without the rod) Put another way, it takes more psi to retract a 2 way cylinder that's doing the same work in both directions.

.
Eugene wrote:Single action cylinder, need to consider the amount of fluid to extend the piston and the amount returning to the reservoir when the piston is retracted, plus reserve fluid.


A single action cylinder would have the same amount of oil to extend it that has to come back to the reservoir to retract it.

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17082
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Eugene » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:02 pm

brewzalot wrote: - -
Thank you for providing the additional math that I didn't mention in my original statement.

In my second quote you left of the "plus the reserve". The reserve is Intended to keep the system from running dry.

OK. Back to the original posters question on the sight glass. Personally think the sight glass is a waste of time and useless for a properly constructed reservoir to match the total hydraulic system. Now for the significant math problems; cylinder(s) bore, cylinder stork, system volume, reservoir size/volume.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4604
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Alternate non-pressure Touch Control reservoir access?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:32 am

Hand raised here as someone who has experienced an oil bath draining the TC. Old Hytran is mighty tasty... Considering the amount of pressure I experienced when that plug let loose, I really don't think a sight glass is practical.

Wouldn't you also want a sight glass on the engine oil and the transmission oil as well? Especially the engine oil, because running low on hydraulic oil is only an inconvenience, while running low on engine oil is an expensive repair. (What I'm trying to get at here is if checking these periodically is okay, then the same should be true for the hydraulic system.)


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall Cub”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jbailey, Poncho and 6 guests