Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

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noisyone
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Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby noisyone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:32 pm

Hello. I could use advice. I'm having some frustrating issues with my 67 cub. I've gotten some good advice here recently, and I think everything points to my carburetor. I want to start by saying that I've had it apart lots of times and it's really REALLY clean. The tiny holes and passageways are crystal clear.

That being said, it starts up initially pretty well. It runs for several minutes, but as soon as I put a load on it, or increase throttle, it surges and surges and surges. It may run a bit longer, but then dies and won't restart. It acts as though it's flooded.

I don't get it. I thought the surging meant it was starving for fuel. But then it won't start up again like it got to much.

Any help is appreciated. I am considering just getting rid of it out of frustration. :help:

Bob McCarty
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:48 pm

Do you have an IH or Zenith carb? Have you checked fuel flow out the drain plug to make sure there aren't any upstream blockages? When you've reattached the carb have you adjusted the governor linkage per the service manual directions?

Bob
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we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

noisyone
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby noisyone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:07 pm

Bob,

It's an IH carb. Each time it dies and then won't start, the fuel bowl is full, so it's definitely getting fuel.

As far as the governor, I have not made any adjustments. I have only lubricated all the moving parts.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Eugene » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Next time the tractor surges and dies, immediately check for spark.

How long do you have to wait after the tractor dies before it will start?

Thinking faulty coil.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby brewzalot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:22 pm

Can you give a little background on your tractor and this problem ?
Just started doing this, hasn't run well since I got it, ran great then slowly got worse, never ran good , etc.?
May help diagnose the problem.

As Bob and Eugene stated coil going, blocked fuel flow or governor issue in that order would be my thought. Blocked fuel upstream can cause a vacuum/issues even though the bowl appears full. The not restarting would point towards bad coil first.
Tim

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby staninlowerAL » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:22 pm

noisyone wrote:....Each time it dies and then won't start, the fuel bowl is full, so it's definitely getting fuel.
Just because the sediment bowl is full does not necessarily mean the fuel is getting to the carb. Might be filter screen in the carb inlet or some other restriction. Have you tried running it on a pony tank?

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Rick Spivey » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:06 am

Check electrical (spark); I'm with Eugene on this one thinking faulty coil.
Rick Spivey
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noisyone
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby noisyone » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:54 am

Couple updates and answers to questions.....

When I said that the bowl was full even when the tractor dies, I meant the float bowl. In other words, there is plenty of fuel in the float bowl, so I don't think it's an issue of not getting fuel.

As far as electrical, I will test for spark when it dies and won't restart.

Now, a little background....this tractor was given to me in return for helping a neighbor lady list and sell equipment on her property. It's a 1967 cub lo boy that sat for many years without use. I pulled it home with my ATV and cleaned out the carb and filled fluids...etc. I got it running, but it has never run well. The carb has come apart many many more times and is really clean. I have not done a rebuild kit on it, but have put in a brand new needle and seat, so they are crystal clear. I also noticed a little fluid in the float, so I drained it, and sealed it and retested in boiling water and verified there are no more leaks. Usually after sitting for a half hour or so, the tractor starts right up, and idles well. It surges alot upon load, but will still idle if put back to low throttle. It eventually dies and then doesn't want to restart for awhile again. I mentioned yesterday that I'm so frustrated with it, that I'm considering just getting rid of it. I understand repairing it, but eventually would like to get some use of out it.

I appreciate all the help from everyone here.

noisyone
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby noisyone » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:59 am

I wanted to add one more thing I noticed yesterday. It may be hard to explain, but I will try.

I added a good quality see through inline fuel filter. If you can imagine, you can see the fuel level inside of the clear housing. Yesterday, I saw TWO lines of liquid inside the fuel filter. In other words, you could see a quantity of liquid inside the filter, and then sitting on top of that, I saw a second line of fluid. I'm thinking.....could this be water that got in the gas tank? I drained the filter and don't see it anymore. Wondering if that is the cause of some of my issues.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:10 pm

noisyone wrote:. . . I added a good quality see through inline fuel filter. . . .

Has that been there the whole time? Most of those filters are designed for a pressurized system and won't flow enough gas in a gravity system. And when they have water in them, they won't flow anything. Simply emptying the liquid from the filter will not remove the water soaked into the paper. Drain the water out of your fuel tank and get rid of the filter.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Waif » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:05 pm

Empty and flush out tank. Fresh clean fuel and seafoam after.
New fuel filter if you wish to stay with using one. After cleaning fuel delivery system you could test without the restriction of a filter.
My filter is large and using gravity to load it. As mentioned ,the engine is not using a pump or strong vacuum to draw fuel.


Check your fuel cap to be sure it is venting properly through the vent hole.
Check your air intake system to carb for restrictions.
Your description hints of non burning fuel or fuel starvation ,with varied potential causes.

noisyone
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby noisyone » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:03 pm

Waif wrote:Empty and flush out tank. Fresh clean fuel and seafoam after.
New fuel filter if you wish to stay with using one. After cleaning fuel delivery system you could test without the restriction of a filter.
My filter is large and using gravity to load it. As mentioned ,the engine is not using a pump or strong vacuum to draw fuel.


Check your fuel cap to be sure it is venting properly through the vent hole.
Check your air intake system to carb for restrictions.
Your description hints of non burning fuel or fuel starvation ,with varied potential causes.


Thank you. This gives me some things to work on. I've already drained the tank and removed the filter. I'll get a new one and fresh gas. I know some have the opinion that the inline filter is a bad idea, but in my opinion there is enough vacuum to suck fuel through it into the carb....plus my sediment bowl and filter broke and I don't have a replacement.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Glen » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:23 pm

Hi,
I'm not sure what is broken on your fuel strainer, but TM Tractor has parts for them, here are some below. Also a new assembly, so you can see it. The screen goes above the gasket. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/314fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/186fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/426fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/235fp.htm

staninlowerAL
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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:28 pm

Try your local auto parts dealer for individual replacement parts. I got mine from CARQUEST, short bowl, retainer bail, filter screen and gasket.

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Re: Carb issues....surging, flooding, dying, won't start

Postby Waif » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:23 am

Ect was mentioned after clean fluids . Did that include fresh spark plugs properly gapped? Bad plug wires , including poor quality ones seem worse with load too.
Wet or fouled or wrong from normal wear gaps on plugs can be a headache

Patience, it will run better if you put enough time and money into it...


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