International 1000 Loader

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jpate831
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Wed May 03, 2017 10:08 pm

I found a place in California that has what appears to be a direct replacement for the sump tube fitting that screws into the TC, based on the original part number. I ordered one to replace the 2-piece contraption I have, in hopes of eliminating a possible air leak. If that doesn't fix it, I guess it's on to checking the TC itself for air leaks.

The fun continues...

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jpate831
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:33 pm

Well, my part finally came in today and...
It's the wrong one. It looks like the image in the parts manual, but it's too small for my TC. The NOTE in the manual references an alternate elbow and nipple, but it doesn't mention the Cub, and my serial number isn't in the given range. But whatever the reason, this part doesn't fit my TC. See the pic below comparing my fill plug with the yellow part I just received.

Back to the drawing board...
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Denny Clayton » Wed May 10, 2017 7:48 pm

If that's your fill plug you have the old style. Standard pipe thread stuff from the plumbing section at the hardware store for your new fittings.
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Thu May 11, 2017 8:58 pm

Well, I took another shot at it tonight. I refilled the TC. I shortened the hose coming from the loader's reservoir to the TC, and I heavily pipe-taped the elbow and the other piece and screwed everything together super tight. I added a small amount of fluid to the loader's reservoir, and I cranked up the tractor.

I raised the bucket as high as it would go. It raised smoothly, with no chattering or hesitation. I watched through the breather hole with a flashlight as the fluid level in the loader's reservoir dropped considerably. I then lowered the bucket slowly. It made it almost to the ground before a small amount of fluid bubbled out. I raised the bucket to the top a second time. Once again, it raised smoothly. This time down, considerably more fluid came out. Each time I raised and lowered the bucket, a larger volume of fluid flowed out of the breather hole. By the 5th or 6th time, the lift was back to chattering, and it eventually got to the point that it didn't want to lift much at all.

I realize that this thing is not manufacturing fluid, so it has to be pulling air from somewhere. I'm pretty confident that the TC is drawing fluid correctly, because I can see the reservoir level drop as the bucket is raised. I feel pretty safe in saying that the air leakage is not in the return tube I've been messing with. Maybe it's an air leak in the TC, but I don't see how. The thing is as clean as a pin, with no fluid or grease on it anywhere. I would expect to see some kind of leak if it was pulling air like it seems to be.

I do see a drop or two occasionally on the bottom of the hydraulic pump itself. Could it be drawing air through the pump somehow? It seems like something's drawing a lot of air, for it to push my fluid out as fast as it does.

Thanks.

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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Jim Becker » Thu May 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Have you tried cycling the Touch-Control rockshaft a bunch of times before cycling the loader?

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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Buzzard Wing » Fri May 12, 2017 10:49 pm

I have not read everything closely, so excuse me if I am barking up the wrong line. The tank in the loader frame is not pressurized, the fill cap is vented. It returns fluid to the TC by way of the big hose. Also not pressurized, everything ABOVE the level of the hose is 'excess' to be drained into the TC (gravity/symphony). Anything that flows out the filler doesn't belong in the system (except see FYI below), it should only be filled to the fill plug (square plug) that I am pretty sure is about the same level as the return (big) line.
Just an FYI, don't drop the bucket unless the Cub is running. Too much fluid is dumped into the tank when you do that.
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Fri May 12, 2017 10:56 pm

Thanks for responding. The problem is that by the time it stops spewing fluid, there's not enough left in the TC to lift the bucket. It stutters and chatters, and barely lifts at all. Fill it back up with fluid (you have to fill the TC and the loader reservoir, because for whatever reason the TC empties before the loader reservoir does.) and it will lift perfectly again, until it spews out enough fluid to mess it up again.

I definitely don't drop the bucket with the tractor off. Even with it on, the loader is set so that it takes close to 10 seconds to drop from top to bottom.

I have not tried cycling the touch control rockshaft. I've never really seen a problem with it in the past, with my belly mower hooked up to it. What should I expect to see by cycling it first? Do you think it would also cause fluid to overflow? I guess it probably would eventually if the problem is in the pump drawing air. I can certainly try that.

I'm also looking into the issue from another point of view. Rather than just being specific to old tractors, I've been combing some of the hydraulics forums for answers. It seems fluid overflow is a fairly common problem. They say one of the causes is an air leak on the intake side of the pump. Apparently a pinhole can be enough to cause big problems. This knowledge, coupled with the fact that I do notice the bottom of my pump getting a little oily after running the tractor, caused me to go ahead and order a kit for the pump, and new O-rings for the tube connection to the pump. Hopefully by fixing the fluid leak I'll also fix the fluid overflow issue.

The hydraulics guys also mentioned things like one-way spring-loaded breathers, missing baffles in the reservoir return lines, and a few other interesting things to look for. One guy even went so far as to attach an overflow tank to catch the excess fluid and draw it back in as needed. That seems a bit over the top to me. Besides, if the pump is constantly pulling air into the mix, no tank would be big enough to hold the fluid. The loader is supposed to work as designed, and I intend to see that it does so.

Thanks for the responses. I'll keep on until I get it figured out.

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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby inairam » Sat May 13, 2017 6:22 am

Jpate,

My set up is different and have not had the problems you have had. I do not have a TC. I have a pump from a numbered cub
s-l1600 (1).jpg
and hoses from the pump to the IH1000 and a

Sintered Bronze Breather Vent at the top 4 x 4 steel support
81VNxeiKFaL._SL1500_.jpg


Since this problem just will not go away you have to try some testing to isolate the systems ( cub vs loader) and see which one has the problem.

I would disconnect from the loader from the hydraulic system and remove the bypass block and test the pump and TC by itself.

If possible try to connect the loader to a hydraulic pump and test it independent of the cubs pump and TC. There are a couple of the pumps on ebay for $50. For that and the cost of some hose you could give it a try.

If both pass the problem is in the steel lines or bypass block.

I know this is a lot of work but this problem just will not go way.
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Gary Dotson » Sat May 13, 2017 8:04 am

Having following this post for several days, I have to feel that you are missing something obvious. Maybe it's time to re-visit your by-pass block. Are both gaskets correct and installed in the proper orientation? Is this a new block and is it machined properly? Just a couple thoughts.

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jpate831
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:57 am

Thanks for your patience in following the post. It is getting quite long. On page 2 of the thread there's a pic of the manifold and bypass block. I believe I have it installed correctly. The block came with the loader when I bought it. There was no gasket to put between the manifold and the TC, so I made one from gasket material. I was careful to punch every hole that corresponded to the block, and I cut it as closely as possible. I would have preferred a factory gasket, but I couldn't find one without purchasing the block itself. The gasket between the manifold and the block is the original manifold gasket.

I hope it's something obvious to someone out there. I can't seem to see the forest for the trees anymore. Maybe it's because I have hydraulic fluid up to my eyes! (LOL)

I am a little interested in the sintered bronze breather vent, though. It looks like it would let air through and maybe not so much fluid.

I'll go ahead and rebuild the pump for good measure and try it again. I'll keep an eye out for any other possible leak spots.

If anyone knows where I can find a "real" bypass block gasket, I'll try one of those as well.

Thanks again.

inairam
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby inairam » Sat May 13, 2017 11:09 am

Call Ron at TM. He shows the block and the kit has a gasket but he does not sell the gasket online but I sure he will sell it if called.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/012fp.htm

nice photos with and IH 1000 loader by the way on the TM site link
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Denny Clayton » Sat May 13, 2017 8:12 pm

The manifold gaskets are used on both sides of the bypass block. There is no special bypass gasket.
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jpate831
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:23 pm

Well that might explain why bypass block gaskets are so hard to find. They don't exist! (LOL)

I may have an extra manifold gasket in some of my junk. I'll look and see. If not, I can get those easily.

I tightened the bolts on the pump and the manifold just to make sure they were good, and I cranked the tractor up and played with the lift some more, without adding any fluid to either the TC or the reservoir. It chattered somewhat, but it did eventually lift to the top. I cycled it a few times without any fluid overflow. Then. with the bucket barely off the ground, I extended the other cylinder to tilt the bucket downward, and some more fluid came out. It did this a time or two, but then it seemed to settle down after that. But the longer I played with the loader, the worse the lifting got, even though little or no fluid was coming out.

I also took the advice of another member and cycled the TC rockshaft several times. I noticed that the tractor seemed to labor when it retracted the rockshaft cylinder. Extending the cylinder seemed effortless, but retracting was a bit more work for the tractor. And this is with nothing hooked up to the rockshaft. I was reminded that I had noticed this before when my mower deck was attached. It seemed strange that it took more power to lower the deck than it did to raise it. Lowering the deck was retracting the rockshaft cylinder. It seems like the air may have been an issue for the TC for a long time.

I think when my pump kit comes in I'll drain the TC and the reservoir, rebuild the pump, replace the manifold and bypass block gaskets, and refill the TC and reservoir, and give it another shot. And it that doesn't work...I don't even want to think about that right now!!

Thanks again.

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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby Glen » Sat May 13, 2017 10:57 pm

Hi,
All the Touch Controls I have seen working make the engine work harder to lower the arms than to raise them. I think Jim B. said before that there is a flow restrictor in the lowering side of the system. :)

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jpate831
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Re: International 1000 Loader

Postby jpate831 » Tue May 16, 2017 10:41 pm

I rebuilt the pump tonight and put new gaskets on the bypass block and the pump. Started filling with fluid and ran out. Hopefully I'll get it filled up and have some time to test it on Thursday. Got a load of topsoil today, and I refuse to move a shovel-full until I get this loader working :-)


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