Hand crank starting ,not happening.

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Waif
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Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
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Location: Michigan

Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:00 pm

Been trying different throttle settings.
Tried a warm engine and different choke settings.
Timing has the magneto pop right on the single timing mark on pulley. Engine tuned up last year with new components. New wiring harness too.
Magneto pops twice each revolution.
Starts alright with starter , though well worn starter kicks out a few times if cranking much.

Wondering if the tired old magneto is the culprit....

Had the battery die in the field last year and would like to be able to hand crank the tractor to life should it happen again.
Generator has been rebuilt since.

inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby inairam » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:52 pm

waif i can hand start my 49 with a mag. the timing has to be very good. i usualy use no choke with an ih carb and champion spark plugs. i find it is easy to flood the cub so less fuel at start is better.


did you do a full tune up with wires and distrubutor cap and adjust the valves? i would also put a timing light on it. i have had limited success with static timing the mag but others have had success. need a 12 volt source for the light if u r 6 volts
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Waif
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Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:30 pm

inairam wrote:waif i can hand start my 49 with a mag. the timing has to be very good. i usualy use no choke with an ih carb and champion spark plugs. i find it is easy to flood the cub so less fuel at start is better.


did you do a full tune up with wires and distrubutor cap and adjust the valves? i would also put a timing light on it. i have had limited success with static timing the mag but others have had success. need a 12 volt source for the light if u r 6 volts


Cap,wires ,valves ,yup. No timing light to try but a good maybe down the road.

Flooded it a bit earlier today trying to hand crank it. Then noticed the switch off still....
Going to give the blisters a break and try more throttle ( and switch on) next time.

inairam
501 Club
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Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby inairam » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:45 pm

1/2 throttle at most. less fuel is better at start.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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tmays
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1947 Cub
1952 Cub

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Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby tmays » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:01 pm

Check the points in the mag?
Thomas

Waif
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Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:34 pm

inairam wrote:1/2 throttle at most. less fuel is better at start.


The operator station control arm is not accurate to it' s range , but tried a third of working throttle most times.
Easier to shut it off at desired range , than find it at start time.

Waif
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Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:53 pm

tmays wrote:Check the points in the mag?


The only things ( besides impulse coupling) that come to mind not involved in the tune up with several hours run time on it ...would be revisiting the the governor linkage adjustment to carb that I did before tune up, and if a touch control pump under load could interfere.

The cub runs nice . Tune up smoothed it out a bit more but it ran good ( and did not handstart) before either.

6volt ,no mods from stock configuration in ignition/ starting or charging arrangements.

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby inairam » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:50 pm

you say it starts easy on the starter so not likely but electrical with the switch.?'
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

SONNY
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Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby SONNY » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:12 pm

The switch on a mag engine only grounds the mag to kill the engine.----You could unhook the wire at the mag and try,--- BUT I doubt that will help!----I don't think any of mine will hand crank,----never tried, ( physical problems prohibit radical stuff, like cranking engines!!! LOL!!!) thanks; sonny

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tmays
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Allis Chalmers G
1947 Cub
1952 Cub

154 Cub LoBoy
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Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby tmays » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:02 pm

I forget the air gap the mag should jump. Pull coil wire holding it close to ground and see if you get strong blue spark
Thomas

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Glen
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Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Glen » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:12 pm

Hi,
You could check it with a timing light to see where it is firing, Jim B. was saying that a magneto should be timed so the timing mark on the pulley is about 1/2 inch advanced from the timing pointer, when running at low idle speed.
If the timing is right, and you replaced the points and other tuneup parts, I would check the spark, it should be blue, yellow is weak. The magneto coil could be weak and need replacing. TM Tractor has a new coil. :)

k hutchins
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Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby k hutchins » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:35 am

I agree with Glen. Most likely a weak coil. I was running a dead battery on my '48 for over a year and had to hand crank it. Then when I needed it most it failed me. The coil was the culprit. Installed a new one, as well as a new battery, and all is well since then.
Hutch
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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tmays
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm
Zip Code: 39180
Tractors Owned: 1948 Allis Chalmers G
1947 Cub
1952 Cub

154 Cub LoBoy
Location: Vicksburg, MS

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby tmays » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:16 am

If you find coil to be the problem, be sure to use copper core plug wires and that plug gap is correct. Also make sure spark from mag has a place to go when mag is turned over. You probably already do these things, but these will help make sure coil doesn't fail prematurely
Thomas

Waif
501 Club
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Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:45 am

inairam wrote:you say it starts easy on the starter so not likely but electrical with the switch.?'

Starts fine using starter.

Waif
501 Club
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Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: Hand crank starting ,not happening.

Postby Waif » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:47 am

tmays wrote:I forget the air gap the mag should jump. Pull coil wire holding it close to ground and see if you get strong blue spark


I have not tried that...will list it for next battle.


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