PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

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Montanafarmalladdict
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PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Mon May 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Hi all. thanks for reading and offering any help you can. My 1949 Farmall cub has a belly mower attached to it. I used it all year last year and then one day, when I engaged the little stick shifter for the PTO (not the main gear shifter mind you), it started the mower as usual when I popped the clutch and then a few seconds later, the whirring sound of the PTO moving and rotating got faster and faster and then it popped out of position and the mower stopped even though the tractor kept driving fine. I reengaged it and it worked again and then popped out and that high pitched whirring started again until it popped out. I tried to hold the little PTO shifter in place with my hand to keep it engaged, and the vibrating and popping/rattling on ,y hand got so bad I couldn't hold it anymore and it popped out again.

Any ideas? Can that little shifter get worn down over time and lose the length it needs for engaging? Thanks again for being a great community of people to turn to. :)

Waif
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Waif » Mon May 29, 2017 3:47 pm

Your little p.t.o. shifter lever goes through a shifter lever guide you can see at it's base. The shifter lever should pop up into the hole at the rear when engaged ,and again at the front hole when disengaged.
Make sure the lever guide fastener/ bolt is holding the guide securely.

The " clutch" that joins the two shafts ,or the lever inside that moves it might be worn on the inner end ,or the p.t.o. levers pin that fits in the " clutch" can be too worn. .( Clutch looks like a grooved splined gear with the lever for p.t.o. going in the groove to slide clutch onto rear shaft to engage.

More rarely ,shaft ends are rounded.

Bob McCarty
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon May 29, 2017 4:51 pm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/317fp.htm
The short pin at the bottom of these pictures from TM tractor is what fits in a groove in the PTO clutch and moves it forward or back to engage or disengage the splines of the input shaft. Often the pin get worn so much that it will not move the clutch far enough to engage the splines. You'll need to do some disasembly to confirm if it's the pin or the splines are rounded off as Waif suggested.
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Glen
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Glen » Mon May 29, 2017 5:19 pm

Hi,
If the PTO lever doesn't move up and down freely, except for the spring pressure of the little spring on the lower part of it, the parts probably need oiling and freeing up. Or the lever could be bent and need straightening. The little spring should make it lock into the round holes at each end of it's travel on the PTO guide, it is called. Here is a pic of it below.

I have found that the PTO guide should be adjusted so it makes the PTO lever go as far to the rear as it can, when the PTO is engaged. It will turn some on the bolt that holds it onto the transmission.
To adjust it, engage the PTO, loosen the bolt some, and turn the guide so the lever is to the rear as much as it will go, but the slot in the guide has to be straight forward and back also. Tighten the bolt and see if it lever moves freely, it should not bind in the guide, if it binds, loosen the bolt and turn the guide forward slightly and tighten the bolt again. Tighten the bolt gently, it is not big.
This might help the PTO work better, if it was out of adjustment before.

The PTO lever goes through the round hole in the straight end of the part that Bob posted above, so the rest of the part is inside the transmission case. You have to take the PTO out of the rear of the tractor to replace it.
You can see it and the PTO clutch by removing the transmission oil filler plug and looking in the hole with a light.
Here are pages from the Cub parts manual showing the PTO, it is numbers 3 - 21 in the pic.

Below is a pic of the PTO from the Cub service manual. Next, a new PTO clutch, and the rear of the long clutch shaft, from TM Tractor, showing the splines that fit together to make the PTO work. Sometimes the splines can be worn from years of use. Then the PTO will not stay engaged.
The PTO pilot bushing in the rear of the clutch shaft needs to be good too. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-14.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-15.jpg
Attachments
Cub PTO 5.jpg
Cub PTO 5.jpg (24.89 KiB) Viewed 482 times
Cub PTO 2.jpg
Cub PTO clutch front.jpg
Cub PTO clutch front.jpg (11.81 KiB) Viewed 482 times
Cub trans shaft 7.jpg
Cub trans shaft 7.jpg (11.37 KiB) Viewed 482 times

Montanafarmalladdict
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:08 pm

Good evening all. I want to thank you for the incredible replies and detailed info. What a great community. I just finished up a long week at work doing major overtime so I hadn't had a chance to check in here. Will eat this up this weekend. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

Montanafarmalladdict
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:23 pm

OK gang… I tore into it today and I think I have found the problem but I'm not sure...so if any of you can help me verify, that would be amazing! :-) The PTO lever and shaft part appears to have half of the pin missing… See the pictures I have posted. It is so clean cut however, that I am not sure if it is supposed to be a half circle or a full circle. The picture that Bob McCarty posted (thank you so much Bob!) appears to have a full circle but I can't truly tell. If it is supposed to be a full circle, and mine is only a half circle, would this be enough to cause the PTO to engage for a few seconds and then pop out?
IMG_0018.JPG

IMG_0017.JPG

IMG_0016.JPG

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Glen
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:01 am

Hi,
The part in your pic was round when it was new. The flat place is wear. It probably won't work right with the wear.

Bob McCarty
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:16 am

It can be repaired by drilling out the worn pin and silver soldering/welding in a piece of drill end of the correct diameter (I think 1/4 or 5/16). Or TM sells them new as you know.
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we need to think differently."
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Montanafarmalladdict
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Good evening all. I replaced the shifter rod and the internal lever that engages the PTO clutch as you had all recommended. Once I got the new one it was very evident that the old one got more down badly. Unfortunately when I put it all back together, the PTO is still making that same grinding noise when I try to engage it and now the clutch pedal will not go in and out automatically like the brake pedal does with the spring action. It either stays down or pops back up but only when I pull it by hand. The tractor started up perfectly and of course I left it in neutral. The engine runs perfectly. I'm wondering if the PTO clutch might have not gotten installed properly or if I have something different that is wrong with my main clutch. The confusing part is when I parked The tractor a couple months ago, the clutch worked perfectly and popped in and out as normal. Here is a video of my tractor with the grinding sound of the PTO lever and the clutch pedal sticking both up and down. Any and all help is greatly appreciated as my acreage Grass is now well over 2 feet tall! LOL! Here's the link:

https://alumaglass.box.com/s/agv04v1hrs ... jzkt248knp

Thanks all. Eric

Bob McCarty
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:54 pm

You need to have the clutch pedal depressed to engage the PTO shifter. When you had it apart did you check for rounded/worn splines on the clutch and input shaft? If you removed the clutch, did you tighten the set screw loosely so it would still slide back and forth easily on the shaft? Are you sure the pin on the lever is centered in the clutch groove? You can see that with a light through the fill hole on the top.
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Glen
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:10 pm

Hi,
Like Bob said, you have to push the clutch down and wait for the shaft to stop turning, before you can shift the PTO lever to engage the PTO. It is not an independent PTO, like newer tractors have.
The clutch pedal probably needs more oiling at the base, it looks like it is not very tight moving. The oil has to be worked back into the housing.
You could remove the transmission oil filler plug, and look in with a light, and see if the shifter pin is in the right place on the PTO clutch. :)

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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:30 pm

Okay gang. Thanks for the advice. Here's what I did: I definitely have the PTO lever working good. The spring is good. The notch is in the ring on the pto gear inside. I can see it moving perfectly back and forth through the tranny oil hole when I move the lever back and forth. Yesterday I had it on one side of the slot which moved it forward but wouldn't move it backward. So it is good now become I can see it moving freely and smoothly. I did adjust the guide plate as recommended and it's perfect it appears.

Still no changes. Clutch pedal stays down or up pending where I push/pull it to. Then it just stays there. I also took off the cap underneath to have access to the clutch and pumped the Zirk with grease. I definitely see graphite powder around and everything appears clean. When I'm underneath looking up into the clutch and push the pedal down to engage it, it moves in about 1/2" and depresses against some pad looking things. Any thoughts??

Thanks ahead of time.

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Glen
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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Glen » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:24 pm

Hi,
The Cub probably has dry, tight clutch linkage somewhere, or the pedal would move freely.
You said it is tight in it's full travel.
The throwout bearing pushes on the pressure plate fingers, the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel.
Here is a page from the Cub owner's manual showing the clutch and linkage. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2040.jpg

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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby donnyG » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:35 pm

It the PTO coupler still grinds when the clutch is fully depressed, then the transmission shaft is still turning. It should stop after a few seconds when you press the clutch all the way down. The original problem of the PTO popping out was probably due to the worn shifter pin. But this is a clutch problem. Its hard to say exactly what but your clutch is not fully disengaging. Possibly a bent or broken finger on the pressure plate. Could be the throwout bearing linkage. Can you shift it into gear without difficulty? By the way. Nice cub!

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Re: PTO Shifter Rod Popping Out

Postby Montanafarmalladdict » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:21 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
The Cub probably has dry, tight clutch linkage somewhere, or the pedal would move freely.
You said it is tight in it's full travel.
The throwout bearing pushes on the pressure plate fingers, the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel.
Here is a page from the Cub owner's manual showing the clutch and linkage. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2040.jpg


Hi Glen. Thanks for the great feedback on my couple of posts. Means a lot to a newbie like me. One question: how do I get my clutch to be "not dry and tight"?


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