Need help taking apart generator to service

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punchofdeath
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Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:02 pm

Tractor will run while on battery but won't run off of the generator. Thing is we can't keep it on the battery cause it's 12v on 6v system so we just use it to start the tractor.
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I don't know what generator it is, all I know is that it worked when my dad parked the tractor 4 years ago. Also to note, it squeaks when I turn it. Sounds like it comes from the brushes that are under the metal band.
If anyone has a question please ask
EDIT: I'd like to note that this post isn't wrote very well. Sorry if I don't give enough info.
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punchofdeath
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:56 pm

I apologize for not stating that I didn't know how to take the generator apart. I don't know what I need to do first second third and so on. I was busy earlier and was writing this post in a rush. Although I have some time now to clarify things. As mentioned the tractor will run off of the battery but the generator isn't outputting enough power to keep the tractor idling (Don't want to try higher rpm's cause it's knocking right now and I'm gonna get some sea foam for the oil and add it and see if it fixes the problem.) When I turn the generator it makes a squeak that sounds like it's coming from under the metal band.
Also, the liquid on it is liquid wrench. I was trying to free up those what I assume are two brushes.
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:20 pm

Hi,
The generators sometimes will squeak when turning them backwards, turn it clockwise looking at it from the front, and see if it squeaks. Clockwise is the way it runs.
The big screws on the sides of the case do not need to come out, they are usually tight.
Remove the cover so you can see inside the gen.
The 2 bolts on the rear end of the gen, in your 1st pic, hold the gen together. They go all the way through it to the front casting.
It looks like it has the wrong front pulley, it is a sealed gen, it did not have a pulley with a fan originally. I don't know what year the Cub is. See if you can find a Delco number, or any number on the gen case.
Some of the people on here, when their Cubs won't charge, find that the voltage regulator is the problem, and the gen is still ok.

If you hear the engine knocking from the lower end of it, the connecting rod bearings on the crankshaft could be worn and loose.

Here are pages from the Cub parts manual showing the gen. The 1st one shows the pulley, the others inside the gen. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 008-02.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 008-05.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 008-06.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:28 pm

I am definitely NOT a generator expert, but I do know the brushes are UNDER that band (which you can access by removing the one small screw in it), not those 2 large screws. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will give you some guidance.

Some information you may need to provide:
1. Do you have a magneto with the internal coil? External coil?
2. Do you have battery ignition (a regular distributor?)
3 Have you investigated the "knock" you mentioned? You should probably confirm it is not a bad bearing (or similar engine problem) before running it a lot.

Good luck!

Note: I type too slowly on my phone! :lol:

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:12 pm

As for the generator, I'm going to go ahead and take it apart tomorrow and clean it out and look for any damage. Although I'm pretty sure the current voltage regulator that's on it is fairly new (Less than 10 years maybe 7) Not to mention, my dad and I had the cover of it off while we we're finding out why it wasn't firing looking at it and it didn't have any fried spots on it or anything (Condenser was bad) . Oh yea, before I forget, the copper strips where the brushes make contact (can't remember what they are called) they look like they are pretty worn. I'll upload pictures of the inside of the generator tomorrow as well as the part where the brushes are.

As for the knocking, when it was parked 4 years ago it didn't have it so I suspect something on the top side of the engine is sticky. I'd like to try the sea foam before having to tear the engine down. I have a moderate amount of mechanical knowledge but not much trouble shooting or knowing whats making this sound. I'm hoping the knocking is caused by a sticky lifter or the equivalent of it (tappet I think?). Although if it does come down to the engine having to be tore down you'll see me on here a lot more. :P

Your first and second question Dale: the tractor has a distributor and an external coil. The tractor would run off of a battery if we had one but we only have a 12 volt battery and we use it to start the tractor then disconnect it using a switch.

If any of this is confusing to read I kinda jumped around a lot whilst writing it. I'd finish one part then work on another then think of something to add to the previous part.
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Steve Butram » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:57 am

Test the armature and field by applying 12 volts armature terminal and then grounding the field terminals to see if it is capable of charging.Ground to the case and apply 12 volts to the armature to see if the generator will motor. If it motors then ground the field to see if it slows down. Not a bad idea to clean up the armature where the brushes run, A slight amount of corrosion will not allow it to charge.

Don't take it apart until you have tested it

There is a generator testing flow floating around here on the Forum
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:14 am

Don't take the generator apart. Take it and the regulator to a repair shop and tested.

If one or the other is bad, probably cheaper to convert the tractor to 12 volt alternator.

Did you prime the oil pump? And have oil pressure?

"The tractor would run off of a battery if we had one but we only have a 12 volt battery and we use it to start the tractor then disconnect it using a switch."
If you start the tractor with 12 volt battery, then disconnect the battery, what keeps the tractor running?
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby staninlowerAL » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:12 am

:Dito: on Eugene's post. Not a good idea to run the tractor with the battery disconnected or to disassemble the components if you don't have the knowledge or tools to test and repair. Possible damage to the charging system can happen. There's some electrical manuals in the "OUICK LINKS" section that will help your knowledge of DC electrical information and specifically the Cub electrics. Start with GSS 1012 and GSS 1310. If you want to run the tractor using the 12v battery install a ballast resistor in line before the external coil to drop the voltage.

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:07 am

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=94992

Above link is a list of CubFests for 2017. If you can attend one or more, do so. Lot of knowledgeable folks willing to answer questions and show you how to work on your tractor.

The generator disassembly is straight forward, some tasks to repair it require a bit of knowledge and expertise.

Research this site for 12 volt single wire alternator installation.

Edit: Find the source of the engine knock before preceding further.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:32 pm

I haven't done anything to it today but when I get time I will do what Steve said first. I did prime the pump through the hole in the oil filter housing as you suggested and it built up pressure quickly when we fired it up. My dad has it wired up some how to where a switch will disconnect the battery and another switch to complete the ignition circuit to keep the tractor running.
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:46 pm

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby punchofdeath » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:31 pm

I drew a sloppy wiring diagram. Maybe this will help?
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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Glen » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:16 pm

Hi,
That is the commutator where the brushes run on. It looks in fair condition in your pics, it could use cleaning and smoothing though. I think the gen has a rebuilt or something sticker on it in your upper pics. I don't know how long it has been used.
Here is a page from a Cub owner's manual showing how to clean it. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2052.jpg

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby tst » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:29 pm

before you shred it here is a chart to help you diagnose the problem, your generator may be find and you could have other problems, does not look bad in the pic
Attachments
08-Regulatortroubleshootingchartrev (2).gif

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Re: Need help taking apart generator to service

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:42 pm

Is your hand drawn wiring diagram the same as what is/was on the tractor?

The bottom switch is not needed unless someone installed the switch because the regulator cutout was faulty, draining the battery.

Just wire from the amp meter to the terminal on the starter.

If the bottom switch was shut off after the tractor started, the battery would never charge up.
I have an excuse. CRS.


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