Cub Not Charging?

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jpate831
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Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:31 am

This weekend I noticed that my Cub's battery seemed to be low. It would barely turn the engine over, especially when the engine was warm. Normally it isn't a problem. I also noticed that when it's running, I'm not seeing any charging on the ammeter. I had the generator off during the winter when I replaced the fan assembly, so I don't know if I created the problem or not. The wires are connected, and the belt is tight, but it's apparently not charging. On a possibly related note, it appears my lights have stopped working as well. It's a 6-volt system.

Where should I start?

Thanks.

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Peter Person » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:44 am

1) Generator may not be charging. Could need new brushes, overhaul.
2) Voltage Regulator is "toast" or the points in the VR could be corroded or need the air gap adjusted.

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, including the headlights not working and determined the generator was not putting out juice so went for a generator re-furb from a local guy who does it out of his home shop. Did a great job too by the way. His standard procedure is to also tune the generator to a new voltage regulator so there are no issues. I bought the NAPA top end Voltage Regulator.

Good Luck.
Peter
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby fordhead1983 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:18 pm

Try polarizing the voltage regulator. When they have not been used much, the regulator can lose polarity. Run a jumper from the "Gen" to the "Bat" terminal momentarily. If the regulator is shot, I have also used the NAPA Voltage regulator on mine with great results. I'm a parts guy at a Case IH dealership, and I will warn you to stay away from our voltage regulators like the plague. You'll pay more for the Napa one, but it's worth it. I purchased 3 of the buggers from over the counter here at work, and they were all junk. Tried gapping points and filing the points with no luck.

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby tst » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:24 pm

not knowing what year cub you have, here are a couple flow charts to help you find the problem depending which system you have
Attachments
08-Regulatortroubleshootingchartrev (2).gif
07-Cutouttroubleshootingchartrev1_0 (2).jpg

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jpate831
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:45 pm

It's a '47 with the 6-volt system.

tst
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby tst » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:22 pm

use chart "7"

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Glen
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Glen » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:19 pm

Hi,
1947 Cubs originally had a cutout, or Relay, IH called it, on top of the generator. It is not a voltage regulator. The voltage regulator on Cubs came out in 1950.

If all the lights have quit, look at the fuse, it is probably on the rear of the light switch, if it is the 4 position switch. You can probably see it with a light. If it is good, turn it some in the holder, it could be corroded at the ends and not letting power through, or remove it and clean the contacts if needed.
The lights could have lost their grounds also, or dirty wire end connections can cause them to quit, they need taking off and sanding to clean them. Wipe off all sanding with a clean rag. The bulbs can be corroded in the sockets also. Many things can cause them to not work.

Here is a page from the 1947 Cub owner's manual showing the electrical system with the hood off.
Below is a pic of the rear of the light switch from TM Tractor. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-33.jpg
Attachments
Cub switch 3.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Waif » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:27 pm

And as ever when starter cranks slow...double check the battery ground connection. Clean and tight and of proper capacity.

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jpate831
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:53 pm

I did the polarize thing, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Since the lights weren't working, I took a look at the light switch. I took the fuse out, cleaned it, tightened the fuse holder and put it back in. Somewhere along the way, the lights started working again. The ammeter shows discharge when the lights are on. So that's all good, but the generator still doesn't show charge when the engine is running, even when I move the switch from low to high or even dim or bright lights. I'll continue down the troubleshooting path tomorrow, testing grounds and such.

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jpate831
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:35 pm

I did a couple more tests. I grounded the light switch to the battery, and I grounded the Field terminal to the battery, but I still saw no charge. I also noticed that my light switch was slightly loose, so I tightened it, but still no change in charging status. It's starting to look like either the generator or the cutout. It's hard to do the remaining test with the hood still on the tractor.

Question: Is it possible to remove and reinstall the generator without removing the hood? I just had the hood off a few months ago to replace the fan assembly, and I'm not really looking forward to removing it again. :( I wish I had checked the generator while the hood was off. I've always had the gift of timing...bad timing. :)

Thanks.

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jpate831
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:03 pm

This afternoon I went ahead and removed the hood with the intent of removing the generator and taking it to have it tested or repaired. With it still on the tractor, I took the cover off the generator cutout. Things looked normal there. The contact points were open. I tapped them up and down a few times. They seemed to move freely. Just for giggles, I left the cutout cover off and cranked up the tractor. To my surprise (and delight) the ammeter immediately showed a healthy charge. I moved the switch from L to H, and the charge increased. I moved it to Dim and then to Bright, and the ammeter showed a reasonable positive charge with the lights on.

I shut off the tractor and lightly sanded the cutout's contact points, and then put the cover back on. I started it back up, and it showed charge like before. Confident it was now working properly, I put the hood back on and fastened everything up. I cranked the tractor again, and it showed charge as expected, so I hopped on and went for a drive. About half way down the driveway, the ammeter stopped showing charge, and it hasn't shown any charge since. Both L and H settings show zero, and dim and bright lights now show discharge on the ammeter. The other thing I noticed is the generator gets hot quickly. After a few minutes of running, it's so hot you can barely touch it. Is it supposed to do that?

I know the cutout is supposed to shut off when the battery is fully charged, but isn't it supposed to kick in when I turn the lights on?

Any ideas? Is my cutout going bad?

Thanks.

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Glen » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:00 pm

Hi,
While you had the hood off, I would have taken the band off the generator and looked at the brushes to see if they are good, or worn down, and need replacing. You could have cleaned the commutator then too, if it is dirty. It shows how to clean it in the owner's manual.

If it is getting that hot, I would not run it until you can fix the problem.
It might need a new Relay, IH calls it, but without being there, it's hard to know. There could be loose or dirty wire connections at the Relay or generator, or somewhere else.
A Relay is not a voltage regulator, that is what the switch with the High, and Low charge does. You have to choose the charge rate yourself.
Jim B. probably knows more about Relays than I do, maybe he will write something. :)

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:21 pm

jpate831 wrote:. . . lightly sanded the cutout's contact points . . .

This is where you probably messed things up. Take the cover back off and try to clean the contact points WITH A POINT FILE. Be careful not to bend anything.

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jpate831
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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby jpate831 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am

I'd be surprised if my sanding broke it, but maybe it did. I used a piece of folded, fine grit sandpaper and barely sanded it in place with the contacts open. Perhaps it wasn't thorough enough. I'm sure a point file would do a much better job. But it did work for a little while after I put the cap back on. It waited until I got the hood back on and went halfway down the driveway before it quit again.

Should I just put a new relay on it, and maybe rebuild the generator? I mean the tractor is 70 years old, and I've never done anything to the generator or the relay. It has always worked. If I take this hood off again, I'd like for it to be right before I put it back on.

Thanks.

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Re: Cub Not Charging?

Postby Crimson Tim » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:42 am

jpate831 wrote:I'd be surprised if my sanding broke it, but maybe it did. I used a piece of folded, fine grit sandpaper and barely sanded it in place with the contacts open. Perhaps it wasn't thorough enough. I'm sure a point file would do a much better job. But it did work for a little while after I put the cap back on. It waited until I got the hood back on and went halfway down the driveway before it quit again.

Should I just put a new relay on it, and maybe rebuild the generator? I mean the tractor is 70 years old, and I've never done anything to the generator or the relay. It has always worked. If I take this hood off again, I'd like for it to be right before I put it back on.

Thanks.


I think what Jim is getting at is that sanding will leave behind sand (aluminum oxide or whatever abrasive was on the paper) embedded in the surface being sanded which will then interfere with the electrical transmission.
The points file, being a much harder metal than the points themselves, should leave no foreign materials behind.


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