No Fire.

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Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

No Fire.

Postby Danno » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:14 pm

Hi, I have a 49 that I just brought from my brother, it was my dad's and I am in the process of restoring it. It looks great at this point but no spark. I verified wiring with the manual. I had the starter rebuilt so trouble shooting its much easier to turn over with my new 6v battery. I honed the points as best I could and set my timing at tdc. I am suspecting magneto or condenser, not sure where to go from here. I see the ignition switch just grounds the wire when you want to shut it off so I have just disconnected it from the mag to take the sw out of the loop. Turning over but I see nothing at my spark plugs. This ol girl has sat in a shed for about 3 years and when recently tried to start my brother got nothing, hence I bought and am giving it a go.

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: No Fire.

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:40 pm

You can remove the wire between the coil cap and the distributor cap where it connects to the center post of the dist cap. Hold the wire about a quarter inch from a good ground point, turn the engine, listen for the mag to click and you should get a nice blue spark as the fire jumps the gap to ground. No fire, suspect the magneto coil has quit.

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Thanks, went out and tried that, no spark what so ever. So magneto issue. Where do I get one of those or does it make more sense to take the opportunity to convert to a coil system?

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: No Fire.

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:08 pm

I found the best price at McDonald Carb, they have a website. Forum Sponsors also can help you. Suggest you download and study the GSS 1012 manual. There's a bit more to changing the coil than just swapping parts. Best to get some help from someone who "has been there, done that". If the mag needs taking apart for service and cleaning a special puller is needed to remove the coupler. If you're going that "deep" it needs a full rebuild, it will pay off in the long run. A Cubfest is usually a good place to get some expert help. #1 instruction: don't turn the mag shaft with the new coil installed without having somewhere for the "fire" to discharge. If you do you'll probably destroy the coil and will be buying another one.

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:11 pm

great advice thank you!!

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Glen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 1966
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: No Fire.

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:57 pm

Hi,
Here are listings at TM Tractor for new points and condenser, and a new magneto coil, if you want to see them. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/367fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/713fp.htm

JohnMihevic
Cub Star
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Posts: 91
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:23 am
Zip Code: 44253
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
C3 Mower
Hammond B3 for Rainy Days
Location: Medina Ohio

Re: No Fire.

Postby JohnMihevic » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:38 am

staninlowerAL wrote:. . . If the mag needs taking apart for service and cleaning a special puller is needed to remove the coupler. . .


The special "Impulse Coupling Puller" is available from Rudy Calin at Rebuilt Mags for $39.95.

8431 Scandia Train N.
Forest Lake, MN 55025
PH. 651- 233-6655
E-mail: rudy@rebuiltmags.com
Web: Rebuiltmags.com

You need this tool for completely disassembling the mag which is a good idea to give it a good cleaning and lube job. Personally, I prefer to direct oil the mag rotor shaft bearings with the mag apart. I think I do a better job than can be done using the oil channels (with cotton wicking) that run below the bearings.

John M.

Waif
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Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
Zip Code: 49343
Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Michigan

Re: No Fire.

Postby Waif » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:01 am

Danno wrote:Thanks, went out and tried that, no spark what so ever. So magneto issue. Where do I get one of those or does it make more sense to take the opportunity to convert to a coil system?

Depends on how close you want to keep it to stock.
Does magneto " click/ trip" when being cranked? Usually easier to hear when hand cranking.
If it is tripping ( and timed to trip at t.d.c.) it may simply be the coil or condenser.

To each their own , but I don't mind having a magneto ,after the slow learning of how to hand start it. The starter is nice , but so is having a back up method of starting.

If on a tight budget and the magneto is shot ,then a conversion makes more sense.

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Thanks Guys, I do hear the magneto double trip when I am turning it by hand. Not sure if I am checking anything by doing this but I put my voltage meter on it and and I see about 15v it jumps to on every other click. cleaned the contact inside the coil cover as it was real oily, put back together and I can move my meter but I see nothing (spark) from lead out of coil to grd which i have about 1/4 from it while cranking. Understand I should see a blue spark here. Curious about the mag timing you speak of. I am simply putting the piston at tdc using the #1 cyl and mark on pulley shaft and then lining up my rotor to plug #1. Am i missing anything here? Would like to keep the mag and would consider sending it away for rebuild if thats my culprit. Having voltage out of it when turning it would mean its working? or should it be much more of a bang than my little meter is showing?

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: No Fire.

Postby staninlowerAL » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:16 am

Oil inside the coil cover or dist cap probably means a bad seal. The rotor and pinion gear has timing marks. Search for timing a mag and you should find some recent posts on this. Download and study the GSS 1012 service manual for Cub J4 magneto and you will see all this in the maint. section on the magneto.

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:34 am

I do have this manual, my father had it printed and in his service manual book back in the 50's.

The oil was covering the coil which sits on top of the magneto, it may have got there when I pulled it and held it upside down.

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Rick Spivey
Cub Pro
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Posts: 2027
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Zip Code: 29681
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: SC, Simpsonville 29681

Re: No Fire.

Postby Rick Spivey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:21 pm

That much oil indicates possible over-oiling of the mag; it may interfere with the mag's ability to create a spark. Any spark you get from the coil should be bluish-white, and not yellow. To my knowledge the magneto coils are not filled with any oil, so I don't suspect that as the source of the oil. The oil cup on a good magneto should only receive one or two drops of oil in a year, unless you use your Cub very heavily. That magneto can be cleaned, carefully, to remove excess oil.
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)

k hutchins
5+ Years
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Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above

Re: No Fire.

Postby k hutchins » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:54 pm

Replacing a coil is not that big of a problem.
I would start by cleaning up the whole housing first. Get rid of any excess oil. I had a similar problem years ago. Cleaned it all out and it hasn't repeated. If all of your connections are clean and tight and you still have no spark, then I would replace the coil. It's only 1 wire, feeding it through into the distributor housing can be tricky but take you're time and you should be ok.
I've done it 3 times on my 48, and I'm no mechanic.
Good luck
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:21 pm

Thanks, I will give it a go.

Danno
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
Zip Code: 45340

Re: No Fire.

Postby Danno » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:45 am

Update, after sending the mag over to Rudy Calin over at rebuiltmags, she came back hot and I got fire!!
Put it back together last evening and she runs great! Thanks for all the help, can't wait to get the sickle bar mounted and put er to work.


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