oil pan removal and other questions

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lurch
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oil pan removal and other questions

Postby lurch » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:04 pm

Hello everyone it is indeed a pleasure to have found this forum. I recently purchased a 1967 cub and the oil pan is leaking. The bolts were loose but tightening them didn't change much so I am thinking I need to replace the gasket. It looks like a pretty tight fit to remove the pan while engine is still installed. Can someone please tell me if I will have any problems removing the pan? I am also having trouble with the transmission popping out of reverse and as you all know holding it in gear while driving this little beast one handed can be tiresome after a few hours. I am not really a mechanic and have never attempted transmission or engine work so I am wondering what any of you might suggest that I do to fix this tranny? I have been trying to find someone that might have a rebuilt or functioning transmission that I can swap out. I realize that even a swap out entails a lot of work but I love this tractor and I want to make her all well again. Thanks in advance to all of you who might have some input here. John in Tucson AZ

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby LRiddle » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:21 pm

Welcome John. As for the oil pan, many times the bolts have been over tightened in the past and that tends to warp the pans flange. Probably either need a new gasket and some rtv silicone to seal it or to put the pan on the bench and sand/hammer the flange area flat again.
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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Eugene » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:34 pm

Welcome.

You will need a 1/4" socket, extension, and perhaps a wobbler to get to the bolts on the rear of the oil pan. Rest of the oil pan removal and replacement is straight forward.

Transmission. Remove the transmission cover, look for loose or broken/cracked shifter fork. Both are common problem areas. Don't believe you will need a different transmission.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Glen » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:10 pm

Hi,
If the transmission is quiet running, I would not replace it. Replacing the transmission is more work than fixing the one it has, if it is just the shifter fork causing the problem. I would check or change the oil in it though.
Below is a pic of a Cub transmission under the gear shift cover.
This is looking from the left side of the Cub. The reverse gear shifter fork is the upper one in the pic.
Try checking both the bolts on the forks, sometimes they are loose and that makes it not work right. If they are loose, check closely, the forks can turn some on the shafts they mount on, then the fork rubs on the shaft the gear is on. It shouldn't rub on the turning shaft. Turn the fork on it's shaft so it isn't rubbing on the shaft before tightening the bolts.

Sometimes the fork is broken, check it closely for cracks. If it needs replacing, it is not really hard to do, much easier than replacing the trans.

If you remove the cover, you can see how clean it is inside too, if dirty, remove the drain plug on the bottom of the trans, you have to get under the platform to see it, and clean the inside with diesel fuel and a brush, while the cover is off.
The owner's manual tells about lubing the tractor. The trans filler plug is to the rear of the shifter, and there is a level plug low on the left side, fill it until oil runs out there, with the tractor on a level surface.
A 1967 Cub would use Case IH Hy-Tran fluid in the trans, it only holds 3 1/2 pints, that's less than 2 quarts. There are other brands, be sure it works in place of Hy-Tran fluid before buying it.

The cover probably will need a new gasket, if you take it off. When you put the cover on, the forks have to be in the position in the pic, and the ball on the lower end of the lever has to go in the space for it, made in the forks.
TM Tractor has a new cover gasket, here is a listing for it. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/376fp.htm
Attachments
Cub trans 4.JPG

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:37 pm

Your engine oil leak could be a leaking rear crankshaft seal. Oil from it can run down and give the appearance of a leaking pan gasket. I suggest you thoroughly clean the area then check it frequently to verify where the leak is. If it is the rear seal, there have been numerous discussions on that problem.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby lurch » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:17 am

Wow this place is great. Such good information so quickly wish I will put to good use in the coming days. I think I will go purchase a pressure washer and clean everything off as was suggested to determine where my oil leak is actually coming from. The transmission information provided gives me hope that I might actually be able to do this myself. Thanks again to all of you responded and I will keep you posted as to my progress.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby lurch » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:20 am

I might also mention that there appears to be some loud whining coming from the transmission when in reverse or first gear but second and third are quiet as a church mouse. So there may be more where or damage

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby lurch » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:20 am

I might also mention that there appears to be some loud whining combined with what sounds to me like some clutch teeth interference coming from the transmission when in reverse or first gear but second and third are quiet as a church mouse with neither noise being present. So there may be more wear or damage involved.
Last edited by lurch on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:12 am

If you don't want to invest in a pressure washer, a couple cans of spray oven cleaner or brake kleen will do the job along with a water hose/spray nozzle.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby mva1958 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:52 am

When you reinstall the oil pan, be careful when you drive in the three bolts at the back (the one's you'll need a universal-joint socket to remove) - they go into the aluminum seal retainer. The holes can be stripped out if over-tightened.
If only Mrs. Hoyt and Mrs. Clagwell had gotten along...

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Waif » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:29 am

lurch wrote:I might also mention that there appears to be some loud whining combined with what sounds to me like some clutch teeth interference coming from the transmission when in reverse or first gear but second and third are quiet as a church mouse with neither noise being present. So there may be more wear or damage involved.


Welcome Lurch.
You'll be able to eyeball some gears for major wear ,but type of lube ,and it getting picked up and dispersed through gears by rolling them ..means a whine on some tractors.
Mine lets me know gears are turning at low speed. More so after lube has drained off gears while at rest. Almost a good back up/ forward motion alarm.
Grinding ,popping or pardon..lurching , would be a greater concern.

Be sure fluid level is proper , some anti transmission additive can quiet a bit ,but gears meshing are not the worst sound.....Better than gears mashing.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Stevetractor » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:23 pm

Also they can get very noisy when the input shaft bearings get worn as they ride night out of the gear lube.

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Stevetractor » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

That should be high out of the lube lol not night

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Glen » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm

Hi,
It is common on Cubs to have water in the transmission oil, they get water from rain, or condensation inside the case over time. The oil is supposed to be changed like it says in the owner's manual. If there is much water, it will be sitting in the bottom when the tractor is stopped for a while. When you remove the drain plug, clear water comes out first, then the oil after the water is low.
Sometimes the oil is mixed with the water and looks like a milkshake, the guys on here have called it. This also coats the inside of the case, and the parts inside the trans with the goop too.
The older Cubs used 90 wt gear oil in the trans, so it is thicker to begin with than Hy-Tran fluid. Not sure if Hy-Tran fluid with water turns into thick goop or not.

Below is a 1965 Cub owner's manual. The experts on here recommend that people read it. It has much info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

The rear of the Cub has 3 separate gear cases with 3 separate oils to check. The trans, and 2 final drives. If you have a drawbar, you have to remove it to get to the plug on the left final drive. The plugs are just above the oil pans that are under the gears.
They should all be checked to be sure they are not low on oil. The owner's manual shows where the plugs are, in the lubrication section.

It is common for Cubs to make whining sounds from the transmission, it doesn't mean it needs replacing.

Stevetractor, the 2 clutch shaft bearings get oil when the Cub is moving, it is thrown up by the lower gears, to the trough that is partly visible in my pic above, and runs down into the bearings. The trough goes to both bearings. :)

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Re: oil pan removal and other questions

Postby Stevetractor » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:33 pm

I agree Glen,the bearings get oil splash when in motion but every one I've had apart the oil troughs get plugged with gunk and aren't very effective. Also, the new replacement bearings, don't have the hole in their shells to line up with those troughs. Thus, as you stated, making transmission oil changes very important. I like to use 90w gear oil with a pint of Lucas oil stabilizer. It is very much like honey and helps stick the oil in tight spots like bearings that run above the oil level. Just my humble opinion.


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