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more pto/part questions

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skindaddy
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:44 pm
Zip Code: 49201
Tractors Owned: international cub 1976 white and yellow

more pto/part questions

Postby skindaddy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:13 pm

so i got tractor back together few weeks back and was mowing with belly mower and hit a chunk of carpet in the road ditch, tractor instantly stopped stalled. i disengaged pto lever and restarted motor and now pto spins with lever off! so i nurse it back to house and it was squealing some like a bad bearing. take pto cover off pull shaft start motor no more squealing.
bought new pto bearing and seal- new seal is only 1/4" thick old is about 5/8" thick?
new bearing has big flat clip with it - old has round circlip type?
also tractor was apart originally for broken shaft that pto connects to so it had new pilot bushing, but i ordered one of those cause only an hour of use and that one was gone/shot.
the bearing didnt seem bad but bought new, although the more i think about it i dont think any of this is my problem nothing looks like it moved at all on pto shaft, i thinking something in the front shaft went bad and slipped back??

on top of that when trying to take bearing of shaft, i broke a piece of my spoke pulley where would i buy one of those at?

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Glen
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 6095
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby Glen » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 pm

Hi,
The new PTO oil seals are thinner than the old original ones were. Hammer out all of the old seal, and the new one works in place of it.
Drive it in with the seal lip facing forward, and flush with the outside of the casting, unless the shaft is worn where the seal was. Then you could drive it in so it runs on a better place on the shaft.
Sand the shaft by hand with some 400 grit or finer sandpaper, if it is rough where the seal runs.

At TM Tractor, the bearing comes with a small snap ring that fits the PTO shaft. The newer shafts use a snap ring, the older ones used staking. If yours uses staking, you don't use the snap ring.
Be sure to stake it at 3 places around the shaft so the bearing is held in place.
Here are pics of the 2 shafts.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gpt ... om_001.htm

When I put one together, I like to grease it using the grease fitting before putting the PTO in the tractor, then I can see when grease comes out through the bearing, at the shield. Then I know the area between the bearing and seal is full of grease. It takes some grease to fill the space.

Put a little grease in the pilot bushing, and on the front end of the PTO shaft before putting the PTO in the tractor.

You could try putting an ad in the Vine, want ads part of this website, to find a pulley. Go to Board Index to find that. :)

skindaddy
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:44 pm
Zip Code: 49201
Tractors Owned: international cub 1976 white and yellow

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby skindaddy » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:29 am

thanks glen i did see those shaft pics.
i dont have a staked shaft- the new snap ring is quite bigger and flat instead of smaller and round like a circlip- i'm thinking maybe its just an update like the seal?

as far as the pulley it looks like it has some sort of insert to give the spline pattern needed, wasnt sure if if someone has taken that out and found a new pulley to insert in if possible

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Urbish
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Tractors Owned: ~
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1947 Farmall H
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Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
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Location: Manchester, MI

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby Urbish » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:03 am

skindaddy wrote:as far as the pulley it looks like it has some sort of insert to give the spline pattern needed, wasnt sure if if someone has taken that out and found a new pulley to insert in if possible


The tapered bushing is removable. You should have a set of tapped holes in the flange of it. If you remove the bolts that hold the bushing in the pulley, and thread them into the tapped holes, you can "press out" the bushing. No chisels, pickle forks, prying required.

As for a replacement pulley, they are commonly available. It depends on what mower you have. The Woods 42C used a 1BK80H (7.4" pitch diameter, H taper bore). The Woods 59C used a 1BK67H (6.1" pitch diameter, H taper bore).

More on these topics here:
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83203

And here:
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97342&p=767623&hilit=42c+pulley#p767623

Links to the pulleys from Motion Industries:

1BK80H: https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=02910212

1BK67H: https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=02910207

You might be able to find them cheaper elsewhere.

If you have a Danco or Pennington mower, you will have to look up the pulley p/n's for those. You ought to be able to find a suitable replacement. Make sure whatever pulley you get matches the bore taper (H for Woods mowers), and matches the number of tapped holes for the bushing.
Last edited by Urbish on Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: more pto/part questions

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Check the pin on the pto shifter, it may have worn off or broken and not shifted it out of gear, and the squealing was the belt slipping, or even an idler pulley bearing going bad.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

skindaddy
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:44 pm
Zip Code: 49201
Tractors Owned: international cub 1976 white and yellow

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby skindaddy » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:46 am

i did check that first i was worried it broke it since its brand new, removed fill plug and would was working fine sliding back and forth pulley. no not belt squeal it launched the belt soon as i hit carpet. squeal has to be bearing just not sure if it was pto bearing or drive shaft bearing.
changed out old pto bearing with new just not on tractor yet , but old bearing is tight so not sure what to expect after reassembling

skindaddy
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:44 pm
Zip Code: 49201
Tractors Owned: international cub 1976 white and yellow

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby skindaddy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:55 pm

alright i'm at a dead end, got back together has new pto pilot bushing, pto bearing, oil seal,pulley . the last pilot was tore up, and finally got that out new one was real tight going back in, got back together started and pto pulley spins on its own, with real firm pressure you can stop it. I figured that pilot was so tight just needed to wear in a little so put vbelt on which held pulley from moving- thought that was good.
then pushed clutch in to engage mower and now wont stay engaged, like it needs about another 1/8" in lever guide.
so i took out fill plug to give a look and it was smoking some in there from pilot heating up looks like there might be at least 3/8" gap between main shaft and pto shaft? not sure if thats right? also the remaining pto shaft you can see going into pilot looks like it may be brown or black from heat?(run time 5-10min)
i dont know where to go from here, i think i might have to break tractor in half to see whats up again.a couple days before i hit that chunk of carpet. thought could hear a bad bearing. the only thinking i have is maybe main shaft bearing ahead of shifting box went bad and shaft slid forward??? but then again it can only go so far with flywheel.
i just dont know it finally worked like it should before carpet chunk!(at least mower part) .
help/thoughts please

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Glen
10+ Years
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Posts: 6095
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby Glen » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:23 pm

Hi,
Too bad you are having problems with the PTO.

If you have a big gap between the 2 shafts, the clutch shaft oil seal retainer, on the front of the transmission might be installed backwards.
Below is a listing with pics at TM Tractor, the bottom pic shows it has a bulge on one side, that has to face into the transmission, to hold the front bearing in place, in it's hole.
If someone has installed it with the flat side facing toward the trans, the clutch shaft can move forward the thickness of the bulge.
Other people have had it happen, and the guys on here have explained how to fix it before.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/431fp.htm

If the PTO pilot bushing is tight, it needs reaming so the shaft turns freely.

Here is a pic of the front of the trans case from TM Tractor. :)
Attachments
Cub trans front.jpg

skindaddy
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:44 pm
Zip Code: 49201
Tractors Owned: international cub 1976 white and yellow

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby skindaddy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:40 am

just to clarify the bump goes into housing?
also is the oil retainer in the link installed in this pic above you show??
as far as the bushing would that be normal to have to ream out? weird the last new one that got ruined didnt and this brand new one was new stock from tm tractor.
do you guys think the heat damaged the pto shaft pilot from outside it definitely changed colors
oh and thank you
i will do some searching on that retainer

User avatar
Glen
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 6095
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: more pto/part questions

Postby Glen » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:46 pm

Hi,
Yes, the bulge side has to face into the trans. Then the oil seal lip is facing towards the trans also.

No, the parts are not there in the pic above, it is just the bare case, showing where it goes, at the top hole, with the 3 bolt holes.

Not sure if it's normal to need to ream the PTO pilot bushing, but if it fits too tight, it needs reaming. I would recommend that you get it to fit not so tight before putting it together.
If it is too tight, and new stock that they have, you could tell them it is too tight, and see what they say.

Not likely the shaft is damaged much, it will probably still work. Smooth the end with very fine sandpaper if it is rough.
Grease in the bushing, and the end of the PTO shaft before putting it together.

The clutch shaft is held into the trans by the retainer, the shaft goes all the way to the rear of the engine. If you split the Cub at the front of the trans, you have to have everything very stable, and be careful not to bend the long shaft. The shaft goes into the pilot bushing in the rear of the crankshaft, and through the clutch disc, and through the hole in the throwout bearing.
Then you have to put it together again through the clutch when you are done working on the trans.

You can do a search on this website above, they have talked about the retainer before.

Here is a page from the Cub service manual showing the retainer bolted onto the trans, in the lower pic.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 006-06.jpg

Here is a page from a Cub owner's manual showing the clutch and the shaft there. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2056.jpg


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