Starter Switch Headache

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Randy Tuura
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Zip Code: 55733
Tractors Owned: 1949 FCUB
Location: MN, Esko - just West of Duluth

Starter Switch Headache

Postby Randy Tuura » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:59 pm

I got a new battery because the old one was old - 10 years.
I got a new starter because the cub wouldn't start. Maybe the old one was still good, but maybe not.
I've not had much luck with the new starter switches I got.
One of them worked for awhile, then it wouldn't. That time I was trying to start the tractor the external resistor for the coil got hot. Smelled hot and used the hot iron test - a moist finger went P'sst when I touched it. Immediately disconnected the battery.

The replacement switches (I bought 3, they're cheap) all failed one way or another. Either the button didn't go down far enough to make contact with the starter or they developed a short.

I got fed up and with the starter mounted on the tractor without a switch, I touched the contact with the live battery cable and the starter responded normally. My limited troubleshooting suggests the problem is the switch.

Today I was wishing for a dash mounted button with a starter solenoid starting the starter. But I ordered some more switches. I'm afraid I destroyed the new ones I had trying to find the problem.

So I have some questions.

Is the purpose of the gasket under the old switch to keep the body of the switch from picking up the charge from the starter body?
Since the mounting screws go into the starter body doesn't that defeat the purpose of the large gasket?
What if my mounting screws are too long? Can they contact anything inside to cause a short? (I"m talking .025 to .0312" too long)

The cheap replacements are shiny stamped metal and the old one is some kind of molded pot metal. Is that a problem?

I've spent more time than I'd like to on this project and I'd like to just install the switch and go. So far it seems I've made all the mistakes you can make.
Randy
Machinist since 1973
15 years in the toolroom with Tool & Die Maker experience

staninlowerAL
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:19 pm

JMHO, the gasket is more of a dust cover, the switch mounting screws into the starter housing makes the electrical contact (if it shorts out) as you stated. The screws can penetrate too deep and go into the field windings if they are too long. I think they are about 3/16" in length. Is the old switch on the old starter usable? You might be able to clean it up on the inside by filing or sanding the contact surfaces. Be sure to replace the insulating cardboard strips to keep it from shorting out.

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Randy Tuura
5+ Years
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Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:33 am
Zip Code: 55733
Tractors Owned: 1949 FCUB
Location: MN, Esko - just West of Duluth

Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby Randy Tuura » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:39 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:Is the old switch on the old starter usable? You might be able to clean it up on the inside by filing or sanding the contact surfaces. Be sure to replace the insulating cardboard strips to keep it from shorting out.


Tried that already and gave up. On two of the cheap replacements the button would not go down far enough to make contact with the block on the starter. Worked fine just out of the box, but wouldn't work with the lever.

My tractor is a 1949 with a 12v neg upgrade done by previous owner. What I'm getting at is that if the pin or the cotter pin contacts the oil filter housing it's not a big deal because it's all negative ground? When I spell it out in words it seems so easy, but with dirty hands and a hornet buzzing around your nose as you wonder whether to spray the wasp and hornet killer toward your face? I so love working on tractors!
Randy
Machinist since 1973
15 years in the toolroom with Tool & Die Maker experience

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3122
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:52 am

Randy Tuura wrote:My tractor is a 1949 with a 12v neg upgrade done by previous owner. What I'm getting at is that if the pin or the cotter pin contacts the oil filter housing it's not a big deal because it's all negative ground? When I spell it out in words it seems so easy, but with dirty hands and a hornet buzzing around your nose as you wonder whether to spray the wasp and hornet killer toward your face? I so love working on tractors!

If the linkage contacts some other part of the tractor it does not matter. Since your starter cable is now POS (+ = hot) the only way you can get a dead short is if you contact that POS connection somewhere, like a bare spot on the wiring harness, starter cable touching the switch housing or even a tool making accidental contact simultanously with a POS point and the chassis of the tractor. Think "where is this POS charge completing the path to ground". And don't spray the insecticide toward your nose! Sorry, I couldn't resist. :lol: BTW, I've gone the keyswitch/solenoid route before and it's not a big deal.

jsfarmall
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Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby jsfarmall » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:52 pm

I have had this exact same problem almost to the T. Even bugs buzzing around lol. I got on eBay and found a switch a little cheaper than k could find at orscheln. Maybe 9 pr 10 dollars. Was heavier stamped metal and better looking insulation. Button seems like it could go lower but if I pull the starter rod pretty good it fires good. I went through 3 of those from orscheln in a few.months. then decided there was a better way.

jsfarmall
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Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby jsfarmall » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:53 pm

I would like to know how to put a starter button on though.

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tmays
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Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby tmays » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:12 pm

I highly recommend buying starter switches from TM Tractor. That's not to say there aren't other places that have good switches. Knowing if they are good quality is key. Otherwise you're throwing your money away
Thomas

User avatar
Randy Tuura
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:33 am
Zip Code: 55733
Tractors Owned: 1949 FCUB
Location: MN, Esko - just West of Duluth

Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby Randy Tuura » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm

tmays wrote:I highly recommend buying starter switches from TM Tractor. That's not to say there aren't other places that have good switches. Knowing if they are good quality is key. Otherwise you're throwing your money away


I wish I'd have thought of TM.
Randy
Machinist since 1973
15 years in the toolroom with Tool & Die Maker experience

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3122
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Starter Switch Headache

Postby staninlowerAL » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:00 pm

jsfarmall wrote:I would like to know how to put a starter button on though.
Wiring diagram is the same as late model Cub with the key switch. The solenoid is mounted under the floor pan. You'll also need to have the "contact button post" on the starter replaced with a bolt.


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