Rebuilt Starter Fail!

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xraycajun
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Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby xraycajun » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:27 am

Hey guys!
I've been working on my '53 cub for about two months now, and I still have starter problems. I cleaned, painted, and re-assembled it... (see '53 cub rescue) thread. The starter spun with a battery. Installed in the tractor, the starter hummed and did not turn the engine. I took it to a repair shop that week. They replaced the bushings, switch, and copper lug. I tried it again early this week. with the same result. It hums and does not turn over. Tried by-passing the battery cable and chassis by going right to the switch and the frame... no joy. The engine turns free with the hand crank. Is there a condition which would cause the flywheel to bind without binding the crankshaft/handcrank? Should a bother bringing this thing back to the repair shop, or just buy new field coils. Any theories appreciated!

inairam
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby inairam » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:35 am

too much paint and you are not getting a good ground connection?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

xraycajun
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby xraycajun » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:00 am

I thought about the paint. I cleaned the starter and starter mounting surface to bare, shiny metal.... then tested for current. The bushings, switch, and lug are new. The brushes have plenty meat left on them. I cleaned and polished the comm, cleaning in between the contact plates. I just don't think there is anything left in the starter to fail except the windings. Or the flywheel is binding somehow....

Eugene
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby Eugene » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:14 am

The bench test amperage for the starter is 75 amps. Takes quite a bit more amps when cranking over the engine.

Have your battery tested at the auto parts store.

Clean up the battery cable posts, clamps, and battery ground. Check battery cables for corrosion.
I have an excuse. CRS.

xraycajun
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby xraycajun » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:16 am

The battery is dead as a doornail... 15+years old. I have been putting a starter box on it that has a 6v starter setting. I considered a new battery, but my dad believes that the starter box completes the circuit that the old battery can't. I don't want to spend too much $$$ on 6v parts. Its getting a 12v upgrade as soon as I can confirm it runs... or as soon as possible after being overhauled.

Jim Becker
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:34 am

Is the starter box in place of the dead battery or is the dead battery still in the circuit? A lot of those boxes are boosters that depend on the original battery to help run the starter. Many of them can't crank an engine by themselves and most can't if a dead battery is soaking up a bunch of the power. Try starting it using a regular battery in place of the dead battery.

Eugene
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby Eugene » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:00 am

Read posts author's previous posts. Tractor hasn't ran in 15 years.

First thing, don't spend any more money on the tractor until you know the condition of the motor.

Prime the oil pump.

Disconnect the B (battery wire) from the voltage regulator.

Install 12 volt charged up battery. Conduct compression tests, dry then wet.

For a start, at a minimum you probably have stuck valve(s).

First problem to solve is compression. Not compression, ain't never gonna run.

Once you have, or determined to have, good compression, then you can work on other problems.
I have an excuse. CRS.

xraycajun
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby xraycajun » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:22 pm

She' got enough compression to run. The carb is rebuilt, valves are now unstuck and adjusted... generator and distributor are re-built. Worst-case scenario, I end up starting it with the hand crank. I'm just disappointed that the $$ spent on the starter didn't = success. I have considered that the battery has a bad cell and is straining the starter box... I may just bite the bullet and get that battery. All that said, I don't need the tractor to start and run. Either way, Its' headed to my garage for a tear-down. It would by a lot easier, though... to drive it onto a trailer than to wench it onto one. And that's not to speak of the slope going up my driveway.... a lot easier with a running, driving unit.

Jim Becker
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:47 pm

xraycajun wrote:. . . I don't want to spend too much $$$ on 6v parts. Its getting a 12v upgrade . . .

xraycajun wrote:. . . generator and distributor are re-built. . . . $$ spent on the starter . . .

Sounds like you already did everything but the battery and maybe some wires. I don't think I can help any more on this problem.

Eugene
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby Eugene » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:08 pm

Jim Becker wrote:I don't think I can help any more on this problem.
:Dito: We have suggested methods to diagnose the engine's starting problem(s).
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby JohnMihevic » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:33 pm

Get any 12 V battery, set it next to your cub, get a heavy set of jumper cables and put 12 V directly to the starter momentarily as a test to see if that will crank your engine.

Disconnect any wires that are on the starter post before you put on the 12V cable. Also watch the polarity. If you have a positive ground system, be sure to connect the + battery terminal to chassis and the - battery terminal to the starter input terminal.

John M.

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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby radioguy41 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:24 pm

It's doubtful a starter box with a 6v switch setting is going to put out enough amps to spin a 6v starter by itself. As someone mentioned earlier, starter boxes are designed to assist a battery, not replace it. Without a charged battery, handcranking will only work to start the engine if it has a magneto. If you have a distributer ignition you will need a charged battery for it to run.
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby ntrenn » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:06 pm

You've had your share of help....now for some science.
You say it bench tested at 75 amps....p=v*i...gives 75*6=400 watts....0.4 kw. Seems a little high for a free spinning starter.
When you add the engine starting load, you will be closer to 1.5 kw....or pushing 250 amps surge current. That takes a GOOD battery.
Rural king sells group 24 batteries for $45. Group 26 fits the cub battery box...they are. A little more..

Batteries over 5 years old are usually trash.

xraycajun
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Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby xraycajun » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:30 pm

starter boxes are designed to assist a battery, not replace it.


I believe the solution lay in the previous statement. I never really believed that starter box would work with that junk battery. Dad insisted it should work.... He's very smart, but I might prove him wrong this time.

Thanks for the input guys! I will let you guys know what happens!

inairam
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
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Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Rebuilt Starter Fail!

Postby inairam » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:37 am

When you troubleshoot something you have to keep building on what you know and test is OK until you are left with what is wrong/ broken.

The battery set up is a big unknown.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!


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