Wiring help

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Eugene
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Eugene » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:55 am

Conduct the compression tests. If satisfactory, then you can proceed. Not satisfactory, then you need to solve the compression problem before going any further.

Considering the rats nest of electrical wiring, I would go with a 12V single wire alternator. The single wire alternator greatly simplifies the tractor's electrical wiring.

I would remove the hood and gas tank to make it easier to work on the engine and electrical wiring.
I have an excuse. CRS.

TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:35 pm

Eugene,
Okay, just ordered a compression tester (I figure I have two cubs, would be handy to have one). You said "All you need to crank over the engine for compression test is a good 12 or 6 volt battery hooked up. Tractor out of gear, pull the start lever. You don't need any other electrical wires hooked up." The way I interpret that is the following: hook up the positive post of the battery to the ground cable and the negative post to the cable going to the starter, but do not hook up the jumper wire from the coil to the starter (therefore the tractor won't actually start). The other things I have read about doing the compression test is to remove all of the spark plugs, shut off the fuel, push the engine speed control lever to the forward most position and then try the starter to get the reading. After getting the reading, add a tablespoon of oil to each cylinder (one at a time) and do the wet test.

IRT the alternator, yes, I plan on getting the one wire alternator. I will need to figure out exactly how to wire everything (probably will get a toggle switch to start it). I do plan on removing the hood and gas tank when I start diving into the wiring more, especially since the 52 has the 55's grill on it. :)

Thanks for all of your and everyone else's time explaining everything.

TC

Eugene
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Eugene » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:34 pm

If you haven't done so, before you crank over the engine, prime the oil pump and check the quantity of oil in the engine crank case.

The starter doesn't care which way the battery is grounded. Starter works correctly which ever way the battery is grounded. With a 12 volt electrical system, alternator, the battery needs to be negative grounded.

I would borrow a 12 volt battery from one of the vehicles for the compression tests.

You need at least 5 compression strokes for each reading.

If you remove the hood, removing the spark plugs and compression tests will be much easier.

When/if you get to the electrical wiring, there are diagrams on this site.

Edit: Write down all compression test reading, indicating the cylinder and readings for each one.
I have an excuse. CRS.

TiberiusCub
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Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:46 am

All,
I had time this morning to try to start the 52. Primed the oil pump, hooked the positive post to the ground and the negative to the starter. Put the jumper wire on the starter, pulled the choke and tried the starter. I am getting spark at the starter. But, it will not turn over, it just clicks real hard. It does not sound like the starter is turning over.

One thing I am wondering and tried to look at before was if the fuel shut off under the gas tank was on or off. It is hard to tell how to check this from the manual. Is there a good way to check, short of removing the fuel line and seeing if there is fuel flowing out? Any thoughts on next step? And yes, the compression tester will be in tomorrow and I will do the test.

I will try to post a short video later of it, but appears the forum does not like iPhone videos.

Thanks,
TC

Bob McCarty
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:12 am

To check fuel flow, remove the main jet (brass hex head on the side of the carb. The shutoff opens counter clockwise and closes clockwise. You should have a steady pencil sized stream that comes out of the jet hole for at least a minute. If it slows or stops, you may have a clogged inlet in the sediment bowl, dirty screen in the sediment bowl, dirty screen in the gas inlet, or debris in the needle valve. If the flow is bad, you'll need to start at one end and work to the other end until you find the clog.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
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Jim Becker
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:16 am

You shouldn't see any sparks at the starter. Fix the bad connection.

Fuel shut off works like a hose bib. Clockwise closes it, counterclockwise opens it.

Put your videos on youtube and post a pointer or put inline using the youtube button above the edit box.

TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Bob McCarty wrote:To check fuel flow, remove the main jet (brass hex head on the side of the carb. The shutoff opens counter clockwise and closes clockwise. You should have a steady pencil sized stream that comes out of the jet hole for at least a minute. If it slows or stops, you may have a clogged inlet in the sediment bowl, dirty screen in the sediment bowl, dirty screen in the gas inlet, or debris in the needle valve. If the flow is bad, you'll need to start at one end and work to the other end until you find the clog.


Bob,
Is this directly off of the carb or is it off of the gas tank and therefore the end of the sediment bowl? I took the sediment bowl off the other day and cleaned it, but obviously it will not do any good if there is no fuel running through :)

Jim,
I don't post on you-tube. IRT where it is sparking, please see the image below. I circled where the spark is coming from. It is the piece that connects the starting rod to the starter. As I pull the starter rod it lifts that piece and a spark happens and I hear what could best be described as a chunk sound. I am not sure if that helps or not. The engine is not cranking, just the chunk sound.

Thanks everyone for your help.

TC
52 Right Side View Better Pic - Part Circled.jpg

Bob McCarty
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 pm

Not sure I understand your question. If you're asking about the location of the main jet, it's on the carb, near the bottom of the bowl and about an inch to the right of the choke lever. What I described checks to see if you have good fuel flow all the way from the tank to the main jet in the carb . I did forget to mention that the main jet may be clogged and can be cleaned with a thin soft wire like telephone wire.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:49 pm

Bob,
I am sure it is me that is being unclear. What I am referring to is the fuel shut off valve that according to the manual should be attached to the sediment bowl. (See attached PDF). It does not look like a shut off valve I have dealt with before. I see the line going to the carb and on the other side is a brass tube. I assume that brass tube is somehow the shut off valve, based on the pic, but I don't understand how.

Separate from that, do you think the chunk sound could be lack of fuel or the starter? I don't think it is lack of fuel, because I think it would still crank, just not fire over. I am thinking it may be my starter.

Thanks,
TC

1952 Shut Off Valve.pdf
(183.69 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

Bob McCarty
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:30 pm

What you are referring to as a brass tube is the shut off lever. The originals all had the "L" shaped lever while newer aftermarket replacements have a "T" handle. The lever stem is beveled on the end and when turned clockwise goes into a seat that closes off flow, similar to how some faucets work. All that happens in the pot metal top above the glass bowl. There is also a vertical stand tube that extends about 1/2" into the bottom of the tank. Debris in the tank can clog up that opening and prevent gas from entering the sediment bowl. That can be checked by disconnecting the fuel line at the carb and then opening the sediment bowl by turning the lever counter clockwise. From the picture you posted, I would guess that the switch on the starter may be bad. You can take it off, turn it upside down and see if the copper end of the button still engages the copper "ramp" which closes the circuit. The clunk is probably because the switch isn't energizing the starter enough to extend the gear and spin the ring gear. The engine should crank over as long as the starter lever is pulled out even if there is no fuel flowing to the carb. There are probably several things going on that will need to be found and addressed one at a time until the Cub runs.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
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TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:39 pm

Bob,
Thanks, that makes sense about the valve. I will take a look at it later.

IRT the starter, I agree. I will remove it tomorrow and take a look. I am sure I will post a picture of what it looks like.

Bob McCarty wrote:There are probably several things going on that will need to be found and addressed one at a time until the Cub runs.


truer words may never have been spoken :)

TC

Bob McCarty
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Location: CO, Longmont

Re: Wiring help

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:47 pm

Before you remove the starter, take off the switch and see if the contacts just need to be cleaned up. It may be burned and need replacement.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

Eugene
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Re: Wiring help

Postby Eugene » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:15 pm

Before you try Bob's suggestion, put the tractor in 3rd gear and using a rear wheel, rock the tractor forward and backward several times. If the starter's over running clutch is stuck in the ring gear, this may free it up.

If the starter is not stuck in the ring gear the tractor should roll ahead or backward. In 3rd gear, roll the tractor forward or backward about 5 feet, checking to see if something is locking up the engine. Quite possible to have a stuck valve, two, or more valves.

I'm sure I have said this before, strip the hood and gas tank from tractor. Get starter to work, engine cranks over, then compression tests. You are just spinning you wheels trying to get the tractor running until you have accomplished the listed tasks, in the order listed.
I have an excuse. CRS.

TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Bob,
I assume you mean the starting switch (see attached). I will take it off and check it out, after I try Eugene's suggestion about third gear.
Cub Starting Switch.pdf
(49.82 KiB) Downloaded 89 times


Eugene,
Yes, I know I am spinning my wheels, but I have to start somewhere. Compression tester will be here tomorrow. I should be able to post the results later tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your help.

TC

TiberiusCub
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Re: Wiring help

Postby TiberiusCub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:23 pm

There is no moving it in third gear.

TC


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