Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

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k hutchins
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Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby k hutchins » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:45 am

Gentlemen

I posted this a month or so ago, but didn't get much feed back.
My cub is a 1948 that is 90% original, and has never been rebuilt. I use it to mow 5 acres, and plow snow in the winter. Mowing takes about 4 hrs at full throttle in 2nd gear.
Lately I have noticed that there is a slight (3-4 Tbl spoons) of oil floating on top of my antifreeze when I check it prior to start up. :(
What could be causing this? Would replacing the head gasket hopefully fix the problem?
There is no water in the oil.
I replaced the head with new gasket 40 yrs ago. Being as it's never been rebuilt, I'm hoping for an easy fix.
Any and all feed back would be appreciated. :help:

Thanks :thanx:
Hutch
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

tst
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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby tst » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:15 am

have you ever drained the coolant and flushed it?, they can build a lot of sludge and crap in the bolster through the years, a head gasket is about the only way oil could sneak in or a cracked block which is unlikely

k hutchins
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above

Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby k hutchins » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks for the reply tst
I haven't flushed it since this problem has arisen, but it has been flushed about every 5 yrs or so over the last 40, and the antifreeze is changed every couple of years. I hope the block hasn't cracked. I don't see how it could except that it's 70 yrs old. It has always been stored inside and the antifreeze is always good to like 30 below.
I guess time will tell when I pull the head.
Anything else that may be a possibility?
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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LRiddle
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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby LRiddle » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 pm

I would bet on a weak head gasket. I feel like a cracked block would allow more than just a slight amount of oil into the coolant. Head gasket isn't that hard of a job. All the information is in the service manual. Just take your time and be thorough, paying attention to torque values and tightening order and you'll be fine. I also used copper spray gasket from the auto parts store to help seal it and pipe sealant on the bolt threads to keep antifreeze from wicking up the threads. Another thing I did that worked well for me was, and this may be overkill for some, I enlarged the picture of the cylinder head with the numbered holes from the manual, printed it off, taped it to a box and drilled holes where the bolts go. That way I could pull one and put it in the coresponding hole in the box and not lose track of what length goes where.

20171014_220841-1134x2016.jpg


You're also going to want new bolts. I got mine from Hamilton Bob, a site sponsor at the bottom of the page.

http://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/product/he ... lo-boy-mm4
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k hutchins
5+ Years
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Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above

Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby k hutchins » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:54 am

Thanks L
Great idea on keeping bolts organized.
Why would I need new bolts though. I understand if one snaps trying to remove it, but if they all come out clean, I don't understand why I would need to replace them.

Also you and I are thinking along the same lines. With a pressurized oil and passive coolant. A weak or split gasket makes sense. I think that's where I'll start. Having that in mind, you never know what you'll find until the head is pulled.

Thanks again.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:29 am

khutchins wrote:. . . With a pressurized oil and passive coolant. A weak or split gasket makes sense. . ..

There are no oil passages from the block into the head. If you are getting "oil" into the cooling system due to a failed head gasket, it has to be from the combustion chamber.

I reuse bolts unless there is an identifiable reason not to.

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby Eugene » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:05 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
khutchins wrote:. . . With a pressurized oil and passive coolant. A weak or split gasket makes sense. . ..

There are no oil passages from the block into the head. If you are getting "oil" into the cooling system due to a failed head gasket, it has to be from the combustion chamber.
True.

If the head gasket is leaking, there should be air bubbles in the coolant. Bring tractor to operating temperature, top off radiator to pressure cap neck. Observe for bubbles in coolant.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby LRiddle » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:08 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
khutchins wrote:. . . With a pressurized oil and passive coolant. A weak or split gasket makes sense. . ..

There are no oil passages from the block into the head. If you are getting "oil" into the cooling system due to a failed head gasket, it has to be from the combustion chamber.

I reuse bolts unless there is an identifiable reason not to.


Good call, Jim. I should've thought of that.
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1951 Cub - Chesty



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k hutchins
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above

Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby k hutchins » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Jim
A mechanic friend of mine basically said the same thing.

So if that is the case, how is the oil getting into the coolant? I should also mention that I had to pull the manifold last year and snapped off a stud that I drilled out, tapped, and replaced. New gaskets and remounted manifold.

In your opinion, what is the problem, and what should I be looking for? Will replacing the head gasket possibly fix the problem, or am I spinning my wheels?
I can't have this thing out of service for too long if it snows, my driveway is a 1/4 mi long.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby inairam » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:04 pm

The path being described is from the cylinder under pressure pushing oil /products of combustion from the cylinder through a leaky head gasket into the cooling system.

There should be evidence on the gasket. Post os picture of the gasket, the head and the top of the engine. While the head is off poor seafoam into the cylinders and let sit overnight before you put the head back on. It may help with the rings

You should also check the head for flatness. If it is warped you will have to get it machined or it will leak.

If you are up for and have the time you may want to clean up the valves and seats viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93111&hilit=valves
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

k hutchins
5+ Years
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Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above

Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby k hutchins » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:22 pm

Thanks inairram
I think if replacing the gasket fixes my problem, I'll leave well enough alone.

The tractor runs like a champ and has never been rebuilt. I don't want to fix something that isn't really broken. I thought about rings and valves while the head is off, but with my luck I'll end up with a cascading dominoe effect of problems.

So next step replace head gasket. I'll post pics after I get it apart.

Thanks again everyone
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby bofahs » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:47 pm

khutchins wrote:Why would I need new bolts though. I understand if one snaps trying to remove it, but if they all come out clean, I don't understand why I would need to replace them.


Well, the engine is almost 70 years old, and has a leak somewhere - we're thinking "gasket" - OK.

A reason that you might consider new bolts is a more correct application of torque during reattachment of the head. Bolts stretch. Depending on the number of times the head has been removed and re-installed, and considering the number of ignition cycles during its life, yours might be good candidates for having stretched. Proper torque = proper, and uniform, compression of the gasket. New bolts, plus proper installation - well, the peace of mind alone might be worth the cost.

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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby Eugene » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:39 pm

Before you pull the head - - - consider my suggestion on air bubbles in coolant. ---- And compression tests.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Don McCombs
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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:48 pm

New head bolt set from Hamilton Bob, $22 plus shipping.
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Jim Becker
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Re: Oil in anti freeze 1948 cub

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:28 pm

The bubble test as Eugene described is a good indicator that it is the head gasket, besides it is a free test so no downside. If bubbles show (and possibly if they don't) a head gasket will likely fix it. Be sure to check the head for flatness while it is off.


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