12 v starter issue

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Granto46
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:43 am
Zip Code: 70775

12 v starter issue

Postby Granto46 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:41 pm

On my 78 cub a few months back noticed the starter did not disengage once the tractor was running. Had to disconnect at the battery to shut the cub down. Since then, every time I turn the key to start the tractor I hear the solenoid click and that's it....nothing happens. After 4 to 5 key turns, the starter eventually engages and off I go - no problems (sometimes more key turns to get it going ). I have checked and cleaned all the electrical connections and grounds. So my question, anyone else have this problem before? Is the bendix not retracting and i need a starter rebuild? Starter getting pinned in a bad tooth on the flywheel? Haven't pulled the starter off yet but want to a have a plan in place before I do. Any help would be appreciated.

-Grant

staninlowerAL
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Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby staninlowerAL » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:39 pm

Do you have the solenoid under the floor pan? Is the neutral switch still in place? Either or both could be a problem. It is possible to disassemble the solenoid and clean all the electrical connections on the inside but it's not an easy task. You could try "jumping" the main wires on the solenoid to see if this forces the starter to engage. The solenoid is probably the easiest and least expensive part to replace.

Granto46
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:43 am
Zip Code: 70775

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Granto46 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:01 pm

Yes the solenoid is under the floor pan. I did try exchanging it with a new solenoid that eventually went on another tractor and the new one had the same problem. I was hoping it was a solenoid issue because like you said - its cheapest to fix but if it were the solenoid going bad, would I still hear it "click" every time I turn the key?

staninlowerAL
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Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby staninlowerAL » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Maybe, maybe not. Other things to check: Connect a jumper between the ground post on the battery and the starter housing/bolt, there could be a poor ground. Also if the brushes are worn down badly there might not be enough left for good contact. A dead spot on the armature will give this type problem. If you have a starter repair shop available it might be worth the trouble to have it checked out and bench tested. A replacement 12v starter is rather pricey I'm told. I was quoted about $175 for a 6v replacement armature.

Granto46
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:43 am
Zip Code: 70775

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Granto46 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:20 pm

Wow that does sound expensive. Appreciate the advice. Good place to start. I'll try and get after this weekend

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Lt.Mike
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Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:16 pm

staninlowerAL wrote: The solenoid is probably the easiest and least expensive part to replace.

A keyed switch is cheaper and may be suspect.
If you turned the switch to crank and it stuck and then now you have to try it 4 times before it cranks I might start with the switch.
Try bypassing the switch to the starter and see how the starter works.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

Granto46
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:43 am
Zip Code: 70775

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Granto46 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:52 pm

Ok. Would I run a wire from the starter directly to the positive terminal on the battery to bypass the switch?

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby staninlowerAL » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:58 am

Questions about the electrical system. A 78 cub is probably neg ground w/alternator. If so, the "hot" (plus) cable from the battery to the solenoid also supplies power to the key switch which when placed in the "start" position, energizes the solenoid and the power flows from the battery to the starter via the cables. In the "run" position, the coil and the other electrical system parts are energized. You can bypass all this to see if the starter will turn by connecting a jumper cable (not a smaller wire) directly from the battery to the post on the starter or "jump" the two posts on the solenoid where the large cables are connected. If you want to start the engine you will have to make sure the coil has connection to the battery via the key switch or a jumper wire from a known power source. This all works only if you have a "good" ground. Another "jumper" cable from the battery ground to a starter mounting bolt or other good ground will help ensure the system is grounded.

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Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Landreo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:24 am

If you hear a click then the solenoid is getting power. A bad solenoid can click but not deliver power to the starter but since you switched out the solenoid the the chances of 2 bad solenoids is unlikely. Try jumping from the battery to starter directly as suggested or, when the solenoid just clicks, leave the key turned to the start position ands tap the side of the starter with a small hammer. I expect the brush holder is just stuck in the starter, easy fix.
A starter is fairly simple, I would look inside before paying a shop to fix any problems it may have.

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Lt.Mike
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Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:59 am

Granto46 wrote:Ok. Would I run a wire from the starter directly to the positive terminal on the battery to bypass the switch?

As said above with a jumper cable just to test the switch, if it works fine bypassing the switch then the switch is the problem. If not move down the line. I’ll agree looking inside the starter it is pretty simple.
My Cub has real trouble cranking and I found a wire lead for one of the brushes had burned through.
I replaced the lead and cleaned everything inside and it ran like new.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

User avatar
Lt.Mike
10+ Years
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Posts: 1144
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: '58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: 12 v starter issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:59 am

Granto46 wrote:Ok. Would I run a wire from the starter directly to the positive terminal on the battery to bypass the switch?

As said above with a jumper cable just to test the switch, if it works fine bypassing the switch then the switch is the problem. If not move down the line. I’ll agree looking inside the starter it is pretty simple.
My Cub had real trouble cranking and I found a wire lead for one of the brushes had burned through.
I replaced the lead and cleaned everything inside and it ran like new.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"


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