Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

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farmergiffIV
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Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby farmergiffIV » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:17 pm

:help:

So.. I got my ‘48 engine all “brand new” ready for install. (I will post some pics for sure when I get this finished) however, the guys forgot to mark the clutch back plate when they took it off the flywheel to pop it off for engine disassembly.

So...

There appears to be a white spray paint mark from something years ago indicating something about one of the three back plate connection spots is special that gives me a clue...

Can anyone walk me through how to attach the clutch back plate to the flywheel without the necessary index mark, or does this old mark suffice? My appreciation goes out for all this priceless help... as I want to reassembly this weekend and I can’t call the shop guys to find out if they put it back on as they found it or not...
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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:37 pm

Never heard of indexing the pressure plate to the flywheel on a cub. They are 1800 rpm engines, not 10,000 rpm dragsters.
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby LRiddle » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:54 pm

:Dito: Both times I've had a pressure plate off I reinstalled without it being marked and I haven't had problems.
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby farmergiffIV » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:23 pm

Awesome. Well I plan on moving forward with the install. But I could do a tune up on the clutch now, but maybe no reason since it ran fine...
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby brewzalot » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:09 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Never heard of indexing the pressure plate to the flywheel on a cub


Clutch service manual 5-3 says "note, be sure to index clutch to flywheel before removing for later assembly" . I'm just guessing but could they originally have balanced the two together? If so once the original clutch pressure plate is replaced with a new one it would not matter anyway.

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby Willy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:46 am

brewzalot wrote:
John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Never heard of indexing the pressure plate to the flywheel on a cub


Clutch service manual 5-3 says "note, be sure to index clutch to flywheel before removing for later assembly" . I'm just guessing but could they originally have balanced the two together? If so once the original clutch pressure plate is replaced with a new one it would not matter anyway.


Yep, it's just kind of "standard practice" to mark them if you're going to put the same two pieces back together.

Kind of like when replacing the u-joints on a two piece driveshaft. (One of my not-so shining moments)
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Nah, it's not leaking oil. It's just marking it's territory.

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby farmergiffIV » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:21 pm

brewzalot wrote:
John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Never heard of indexing the pressure plate to the flywheel on a cub


Clutch service manual 5-3 says "note, be sure to index clutch to flywheel before removing for later assembly" . I'm just guessing but could they originally have balanced the two together? If so once the original clutch pressure plate is replaced with a new one it would not matter anyway.


After I read this in the Shop manual I got worried. But i’ll Take your word on it that it’s not necessary, however I am using both original pieces.

I didn’t see any torque specs for the flywheel bolts that go into the engine. I guess just nice and arm tight..
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby Glen » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi,
The flywheel to crankshaft bolt torque is in the Cub service manual, GSS-1411. Below is the page with the torque. It says 45 ft lbs.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-09.jpg

Below is the manual, it has 2 sections missing, but section 1, the engine section, is there. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/galleries/ci ... actors.asp

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby farmergiffIV » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:37 pm

Thanks-

I have the flywheel according to torque specs now.

I May understand theory of clutch and how it sorta works well at least this cubs.

I am tightening down the two cap screws and the nuts and bolts now and I have probably put them too tight. Since 35lbs seams really low for the engine nuts and bolts- I went a quarter past or a whole turn more but wondering if it’s also my old nuts and bolts- they are being reused and are semi-clean, but we’ll worn, so I figure I should at least tighten them all first to lock washers locked and compressed and a snug fit and then check 35lbs there after?
Some are at 40-50 to get the washers to sit... i’ll Probably need to do just 35 and retorque these a long with the head bolts after I run first. Any thoughts about this order or anything else to retorque after a engine re assembly?
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:22 pm

Be really careful overtorquing...the screw/bolt could be stretching, and if it reaches its breaking point, you'll have the new project of getting the old one back out. To get the correct torque, it's always helpful to chase the threads of the hole, and at least wipe off any "grunge" on the bolt.

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:50 pm

Farmer, in the front of the service manual there is a torque sheet listing bolt sizes lengths and grades.
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby coppersmythe » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:00 pm

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Never heard of indexing the pressure plate to the flywheel on a cub. They are 1800 rpm engines, not 10,000 rpm dragsters.
i have done two clutch replacements . i did not mark them , and just installed them . its been four years on one , and five years on the other . both have been used regularly , so far , so good . coppersmythe...................................PS: cant hurt to mark them , if you can. johns been around the cub block a few times .

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby Glen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:52 pm

farmergiffIV wrote:Thanks-
I am tightening down the two cap screws and the nuts and bolts now and I have probably put them too tight. Since 35lbs seams really low for the engine nuts and bolts- I went a quarter past or a whole turn more but wondering if it’s also my old nuts and bolts- they are being reused and are semi-clean, but we’ll worn, so I figure I should at least tighten them all first to lock washers locked and compressed and a snug fit and then check 35lbs there after?
Some are at 40-50 to get the washers to sit... i’ll Probably need to do just 35 and retorque these a long with the head bolts after I run first. Any thoughts about this order or anything else to retorque after a engine re assembly?


Hi,
I was wondering what bolts you thought are torqued to 35 ft lbs. There are none on the page from the service manual that I posted above that IH said to use 35 ft lbs for.
If the threads are dirty, clean them all before putting the engine together. Use a tap in the holes, and a die on the bolts. They have to be clean, and turn in by hand to get an accurate torquing.
The specs in the manual are what IH said to use.
The engine needs a non hardening sealer on all the head bolt threads, the bolts go into the water jacket. I don't know if you had the head off or not. :)

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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby farmergiffIV » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:56 pm

[/quote]
Hi,
I was wondering what bolts you thought are torqued to 35 ft lbs. There are none on the page from the service manual that I posted above that IH said to use 35 ft lbs for.
If the threads are dirty, clean them all before putting the engine together. Use a tap in the holes, and a die on the bolts. They have to be clean, and turn in by hand to get an accurate torquing.
The specs in the manual are what IH said to use.
The engine needs a non hardening sealer on all the head bolt threads, the bolts go into the water jacket. I don't know if you had the head off or not. :)[/quote]

These 35lb torques are the ones that the engine is mounted to the rear frame with. The 2 upper middle bolts are at 55 and the 4 side ones at 35 lb torques. I believe it’s to spec in the owners manual, but I could t find torque specifics for the 4 bolts connecting the front of the engine to the steering gear/radiator mount.
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Re: Machine shop forget to Index the clutch to flywheel

Postby Glen » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:59 am

I don't see that the Cub service manual lists torque values for that either.
You probably found the torque table in the front of the manual.
Here it is below, if you need it. This is for modern bolts, shown at the lower right of the page. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 000-06.jpg


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