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Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

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Brodalick
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Brodalick » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:08 pm

IMG_20180213_120656.jpg
Here is the wiring diagram I went by

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Brodalick
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Brodalick » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:13 pm

My wiring exactly with the exception of no fuse or diode\light.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Landreo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:20 pm

If it is a 3 wire alternator then you need a diode/resistor/light, without those it will drain the battery and make it hard to shut off the engine but it still should charge and keep the engine running if you disconnected the battery while running. If it is a 1 wire then there is no need for a diode/resistor/light. A one wire needs to get to a certain rpm to start charging and all alternators need a certain minimum rpm to keep charging. Too low of an rpm and the alternator will not keep charging. The alternator also needs a good ground wire from the alternator case to the ground.

I would charge the battery, measure the voltage at the battery, start the tractor and measure the voltage again after running the tractor to high idle or full throttle then back to maybe 1/2 throttle. That should be fast enough to start charging and to keep charging. If the battery voltage increases then it is charging, if not then check the voltage at the output terminal of the alternator if you can get to it. You may just have some bad wiring.

Removing the battery will cause a voltage spike in both alternators and generators, called inductive load dumping, but there needs to be a significant load that was dumped not just the ignition load. The alternators also have some protection against those spikes in the form of commutator diodes in the regulator. However, you can do a rough check on the alternator by checking on the field magnetism in the alternator by using a screwdriver. The magnetic field for the field winding is parallel to and runs through the alternator drive shaft. If there is a decent magnetic field for the field winding then you will be able to feel that field with a screw driver tip placed near the rear bearing of the alternator when running. Does not guarantee that the alternator is working but is a quick test that is easy to do.

Brodalick
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Brodalick » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:17 pm

Update. Bad battery according to auto zone. Now what killed it. Bad or wrong wiring or no alternator output? Nasty weather here today so I will check more tomorrow. This forum is making this issue easier to trace down. Thanks

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Stanton » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 pm

Brodalick wrote:...Battery was disconnected by mistake or accident. Positive cable was not tightened and was accidentally pulled off by my foot and motor cut off. Not done on purpose but once it happened I was thinking the motor should have kept running using the output of the alternator.


I know this thread is starting to get deep in the electrical weeds with comments and suggestions, but I must have missed someone stating the obvious (or it wasn't stated): Tractors with magnetos will continue to run when the battery is disconnected from the circuit; tractors with distributors will stop running. I think I'm remembering this correctly (all mine are mags).

Isn't that right?

The alternator only supplies charge to the battery while it's in circuit. Once the battery is removed from the circuit, there's no more spark in the distributor; engine dies.
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Eugene
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Eugene » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:14 pm

Stanton wrote:[The alternator only supplies charge to the battery while it's in circuit. Once the battery is removed from the circuit, there's no more spark in the distributor; engine dies.
Check out the wiring diagram, although it's upside down and out of focus. Landreo's post above, explains how the engine keeps running.

The #1 alternator terminal back feeds the ignition system, keeping the engine running even when the ignition switch is off. Common problem without something in that circuit to shut off the voltage.

Not sure what Broadalick's problem is, could be that the tractor is miss wired or a faulty appliance.

I think the dead battery is due to a lack of something in the alternator #1 circuit allowing it to not shut it off. Without something to disconnect the #1 circuit, flat dead battery overnight. Several times doing this will kill a battery. The dead battery may be a symptom of another problem.

If this were mine, I would use the 3 wire alternator as a core, pick up a 1 wire alternator, correct any tractor wiring faults . Cost $40 or so. Just quit messing with it. But then, I'm not there and it's not my tractor.

I'm back. Kimchi break. Have you conducted a trace on all the tractor's wiring? Since the tractor dies when the battery is disconnected and nothing in alternator #1 circuit, - - - -something wrong.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Landreo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:40 am

Stanton is correct, the cub will keep running with a magneto but he said coil so I assumed it has a battery ignition. If it has a magneto then Stanton has solved the problem.

The older I get the more I like one wire alternators but if you have a battery ignition then I would try to find the problem. If the alternator is bad then I woud do as Eugene suggested and exchange for a one wire.

No Kimchi for me.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Eugene » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:50 am

Blow up the 1st and 2nd photo in this topic. Battery powered ignition.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Brodalick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:41 am

People at Auto Zone looked at me like I was from some friggin outer space planet when I asked about a 1 wire alternator. " No such thing exist" was their reply. Went to see my friend that owns the electrical shop and he repeated the same thing some on here said. He said bring it to me and will convert your 3 wire to a 1 wire and your problem should be solved. He also said he wasn't a huge fan of a 1 wire set up on a vehicle but it would be fine on a tractor.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Eugene » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:49 am

Internet search for 1 wire alternator. Quite a number are available.

Even Auto Zone sells them.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Brodalick
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Brodalick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:51 am

Eugene, sorry about the upside down backwards out of focus photo. It was taken with my new tablet, which by the way appears to be way smarter than I am.

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Slim140 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:00 am

Eugene wrote:Even Auto Zone sells them.

True, BUT if the young person working there can't find it on the computer by putting in your vehicle information it doesn't exist. You have to talk to the person who looks like they been there for a while and they will walk to the shelf and get it or look it up in the.........wait for it............BOOK.
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Matt Kirsch
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:24 am

Brodalick wrote:Matt that's another issue. Gauge is broken. Tractor ran yesterday and today battery is dead. My guess is a faulty alternator. I have a friend that owns an electrical shop and can rebuild it it needed.


I'd fix that next, and if you got a guy who can rebuild the alternator for $20, go for it.

The best I've been able to do on rebuilt Delco 10SI's is $35 at Advance Auto, and I've had a 75% failure rate on them so far...

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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Slim140 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:28 am

Here's a small one wire that I've had good success with. $65.07 with free shipping. Run one wire to your amp gauge, the other side of the amp gauge to your battery, done. https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/c ... 12180.html
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Re: Tractor cut off with battery disconnect

Postby Glen » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:53 pm

Hi,
I was looking at your pics on page 1 of this post, and it looks like your Cub might have a problem similar to the Cub in the post below, that Rjpoog1989 made.
It looks like the front axle spindle shafts are pointed to the rear on the right side in your pic, they are supposed to angle ahead, the amount yours looks to be angled to the rear. They are the shafts going down from the axle tube to the front wheel hubs.
It affects the way the Cub steers to have them angled ahead. It's possible it is just the pic making it look angled wrong, I would look at the Cub and see if it needs repair. If they are angled to the rear, something might be put together wrong, like in this post below.
Read through pages 4, 5, and 6, where I and others wrote about his Cub, it will explain it more. He has pics down a little on page 4 that show how his was. :)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99548&start=45


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