Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:36 pm

JoeB, have you installed one of those Victor seals? They are cheap and available!
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby JoeB » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:52 pm

I bought 6 and used 4 of them. No problems with them yet.

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby ricky racer » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:38 pm

Shane, with the concern of thermal expansion, would it make sense to make the retainers from a steel weldment? A 1/4" plate with a short piece of mechanical tubing for the seal interface and maybe a 5/8" or 3/4" piece on the bottom for the pan bolts. The plate could be a burnout. It'd be a pretty simple weldment.
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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:41 pm

Ricky, I thought about that but the warp from welding would be awful, I think.
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby indy61 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:55 pm

I probably shouldn't give my opinion on this because I have no experience with failure but... I hate rubber coated seals.
I think a SKF seal is better with bore-tite coating and if they make one with V code lip material in the correct dimensions, I would use that.

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:03 am

My ''53 Cub came from the previous owner with three new seals for the rear main. One was plastic/rubber coated and fit tightly in the retainer. The other two were metal and loose. Unfortunately the information on those seals is buried in my shop somewhere.

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Landreo » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:09 am

The problem with the seals and the retainer is thermal expansion and metal creep. The aluminum is better than ZAMAK or zinc diecast as far as the thermal expansion but still twice that of steel and a steel cased seal. That is the reason for the rubber cased seal.

There are likely many rubber cased seals that will fit, the victor seal may be a good choice if it is a full rubber cased seal not just a rubber faced seal. Harwal makes a 3 X 3.875 X .375 double lipped seal that I have used in the past, around $10.

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Rick Prentice » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 am

the victor seal may be a good choice if it is a full rubber cased seal not just a rubber faced seal. Harwal makes a 3 X 3.875 X .375 double lipped seal that I have used in the past, around $10.
Now you have me confused. The original type IH seals sold by TM and IH dealers are steel construction coated with the rubber compound on the full outside. What are you calling a rubber faced seal as opposed to a full rubber cased seal. How about a part number from Harwal so we can see exactly which seal you're recommending and a current 2018 price.

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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:45 am

Here’s the original seal you sent me Rick, it’s rubber cased but I’m holding it up with a magnet.
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Rick Prentice » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:56 am

Shane, that's correct. From an older post years ago
I took the National seal marked (1) and removed the rubber jacket off the outside. It now measures 3.825, meaning the rubber coating totalled .053 thick(.0265 on a side) The rubber when new feels soft and pliable.
The seal from Victor should be the same construction, or close to it.

Rick
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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:51 pm

Walt is loaded up ready for a road trip in the morning. He’s the one getting the prototype.
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Landreo » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:25 pm

Rick Prentice wrote:
the victor seal may be a good choice if it is a full rubber cased seal not just a rubber faced seal. Harwal makes a 3 X 3.875 X .375 double lipped seal that I have used in the past, around $10.
Now you have me confused. The original type IH seals sold by TM and IH dealers are steel construction coated with the rubber compound on the full outside. What are you calling a rubber faced seal as opposed to a full rubber cased seal. How about a part number from Harwal so we can see exactly which seal you're recommending and a current 2018 price.

Rick


A rubber cased seal is coated with relatively thick rubber on the face and OD like the original seal. A rubber faced seal has a steel or bore-tite coated OD with a rubber coating on the face. A steel seal has no coating or only a bore-tite style coat. There are also rubber only seals with no steel case.

I have trouble telling them apart from the photos posted but the TM seal looks to be a steel cased seal with a bore-tite like coating. The Messick photo appears to be an old National seal photo and I doubt it is actually what they currently sell. For the Victor seal, I cannot tell from the posted photo if that seal is fully cased in rubber. I also cannot find any data on the seal which is strange. No company catalog listing that would give the specs.

Harwal does not have seal numbers that I know of, they just go by size, but I got around 10 of the seals several years ago for around $10 or less apiece. Motion industries was my supplier. Just ask for a Harwal 3.00 X 3.875 X.375 either style A which is a single lip or a style ADL which is a double lip.

If for some reason Shane Nelson cannot make it to Motion Industries or another supplier then send me a PM with an address and I will send one of my extras.

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Shane Nelson
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Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:56 am

Seal showed up from Messick’s. It’s like the original. Rubber cased with steel underneath.
It’s a National #355526 I cant find one anywhere except the dealer. Called Motion Industries and Auto parts store checked as well. Can’t find one on the internet either.
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God is good, all the time!
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Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
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Rick Prentice
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Rick Prentice » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:57 am

So looks like some factual information that TM sells the full rubber coated seal, Messicks sells the same full rubber coated seal, and Victor/Clevite has a full rubber coated similar version also. I wonder if we called the dealer if they could tell us how many of the rubber coated ones are in their system. If they only show say 25, may be an issue down the road but if they have 1000??? The saga continues. I noticed that Hamilton Bob sells a kit with gaskets, retainer, and a metal seal with the bore-tite type sealer(their seal OD is not rubber coated)
Rick
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"

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Shane Nelson
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1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:05 pm

Rick, I have a friend who works in parts at Case/IH. I sent him an email and ask if he can tell me how many they show in their system. I'll post what he says.
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
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