Question regarding Kerosene super a

Farmall Super A, AV, 1939 - 1954

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Question regarding Kerosene super a

Postby Rockguy » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:48 pm

I just picked up another super a for parts but after checking it out I think it is to good to part out. How do I tell if it is a kerosene or distallate model. The hood has the extra hole for the small tank and it has a shutter control. Some parts are missing like the extra tank and the shutters themselves. Would the engine number reveal additional info?
Thanks in advance
Steve
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:46 pm

Depending on the year, it should be marked with X13 for kerosene, or X17 for distillate, of the later ones were A for distillate, and B for kerosene.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 19093
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Mo, Potosi
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.

Postby Super A » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:42 pm

The X codes were not used on the Super A series, I think they applied to the H & M only.

If you have the extra hole in the hood and shutter controls, it is a pretty good bet that you have a kerosene/distillate burner. Shutters by themselves were optional on gasoline tractors, in fact my great-uncle and next door neighbor has a gasoline Super A with shutters. Anyway....

Look at the manifold. It should be larger and "box-ier" for lack of a better word, where the intake/exhaust chambers come together and the exhaust pipe goes out the top. The exhaust pipe will be held on by two bolts, rather than threaded black pipe screwed into the top of the manifold as on gasoline tractors. Keep in mind the manifold could have been replaced.

What are your engine and tractor serial numbers? The engine serial # may give us some clues.

Here's mine. It was set up for kerosene or distillate, but was always run on gas.

Image
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
User avatar
Super A
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Location: NC, Jacksonville area
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "The Paperweight"
Cub powered IH 52R combine
Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rockguy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:57 pm

Thanks for your responses. Here are the engine numbers 354898 r1, 12-19-x
It also has the mount for the stock temp sending unit as far as I have read the gas engines did not come with a factory temp gauge only the others. Also the pistons are skirted not round on the bottom and has a Z stamped on it.
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby Rockguy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:01 pm

The tractor # is 322818 and also has a rpm rating of 1540 I thought the rpm rating was lower. The manifold is the regular style but it was not mounted it just came in a box with some other parts.
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby Super A » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:21 pm

Look for the engine serial number on the upper left hand corner of the engine block, near where the distributor would mount. The engine numbers you quoted are the part number. The tractor serial number indicates a 1951 model by the way.... :D

The gas tractors could have a temp gauge from teh factory, it was an option. If it had radiator shutters it would have the temp gauge.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
User avatar
Super A
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Location: NC, Jacksonville area
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "The Paperweight"
Cub powered IH 52R combine
Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rockguy » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:12 pm

Got a dead end on the engine serial number I found the spot where it is supposed to be but it is blank either the stamping was weak and over the years it wore away or it was removed on purpose either way thats a dead end. Any other way to determine weather it is kerosene , distillate ,or gas? Maybe by the pistons? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am pretty sure I want to restore this and not part it out but I need to know the correct pistons and sleeves to order. I found the number 4053-D on the side of the piston along with a Z does anyone know what this means?
Thanks Steve
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Possibly a replacement block.

I don't come up with anything on 4053-D. Can you find a part number cast into the cylinder head?
User avatar
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 11846
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: TX/MN
Zip Code: 75048
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Super A » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:30 pm

That is the part number for the piston. Let me get home and check my parts book

It may be your tractor got a replacement engine at some point. The date code you posted with the block part number is from 1952.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
User avatar
Super A
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Location: NC, Jacksonville area
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "The Paperweight"
Cub powered IH 52R combine
Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rockguy » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:39 pm

Little more info. The head #'s are 251172-R2 8-30-W. I also measured the bore and it is 3" 1/8 not 3" and the rod bearing is marked .020 so I assume the crank was ground at some point. I checked my parts book and I couldn't find any # close to the # I posted for the piston. These pistons are stepped not flat and I believe alum. I wonder if this was rebuilt to a 123 cid and then just run on gas from the rebuild on, maybe that would explain the absence of the small fuel tank.
Steve
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:06 pm

The Valu-bilt catalog list the following bores for the Super A: 3", 3 1/8", 3 3/16", and 3 1/4".

Since you have the head off the engine. Crank the engine over and measure the distance from the top surface of the block to the top of the piston at TDC.

On the 201 cubic inch Allis Chalmers engine there are about 7 different pistons available. Including low compression/kerosene. The kerosene pistons set very low - approximately 1 inch below the surface of the block at TDC. The higher the compression ratio the closer the piston is to the surface of the block.

My thought is that the engine has been previously rebuilt with a new piston and sleeve set. If the engine were initially set up for kerosene - the owner would more than likely have installed the higher compression (bit more power) gasoline sleeve and piston set.

Eugene
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12119
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rockguy » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Thanks Eugene, The piston at TDC is probably within a quarter of an inch from the top of the sleeve. I tend to agree with you on the rebuild being for gas. I am having trouble with the valu-bilt site maybe I can get some info from them later.
Steve
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:11 pm

That is the part number for a gasoline head. The stepped pistons are higher compression gasoline pistons in an 1/8" overbore. If it was a kerosene or distillate engine, no internal kerosene parts remain.

Your block should have the bigger lower bore for the sleeves. If you buy sleeve and piston sets, you need to choose from the "serial number 310300 and above" choices.
User avatar
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 11846
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: TX/MN
Zip Code: 75048
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:13 pm

http://www.valu-bilt.com/catalog_request.php

Try this. Order the free catalog. Parts - click on parts in upper left corner of page.

Looks like Iowa is going to have it's 2nd annual across Iowa tractor ride.

Eugene
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12119
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rockguy » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:22 pm

Thanks Jim, I think with everyones help we are narrowing this down. I think you are correct no internal Kerosene parts left
Eugene, When I click on the parts section every part category I click on says no records found. Somethings not working correctly I am sure they are not out of every part for a Super A. I went ahead and ordered the catalog.
Steve
Rockguy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Crystal Beach Florida
Zip Code: 34681
Tractors Owned: Farmall Super A-2
1948 Jaques mighty mite


Return to Farmall A, Super A, AV

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest