SA Steering adjustment problem

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SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:07 pm

I just installed the steering shaft and wheel, so I now have everything for the front end back on my '48 SA, and was trying to adjust the steering...centering and toe-in, etc. The steering wheel turns, but when there is resistence (tires on the ground) something starts to "slip" inside. I had the steering worm wheel off during disassembly (#19 http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Super% ... %20178.jpg) when cleaning and checking everything out, but it went back together without any problems (as far as I could tell!). I am wondering if there is a specific "position" to which the steering shaft needs to be turned in order to get the worm gear to mesh correctly. It behaves like gears are stripped, but I know they are not. Perhaps it is a proximity situation...like the two gears are just too far apart? Can anyone help me? :help: I am SO close to having this completed!

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Hengy » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:24 pm

Is there a key in the steering shaft underneath where it goes through the center pitman arm like on a Cub? If so, make sure that this key is in place or the shaft could spin...

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:00 pm

It was in place when assembled. But you are right, that is about what it feels like: turns fine until resistence. Hmmmm...I will go back and review photos and see if I can confirm all was assembled correctly. To take it apart requires removal of the front axle again, which, obviously, I would prefer to avoid!! :(

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:40 pm

If it has the late style arm, it should have a key as Mike suggested. It should have another key where the sector gear mounts on the same shaft. Either one missing could give the effect you are seeing. When it slips, see if the nut on the bottom (if there is one) turns. If it turns, you know the problem is the arm slipping on the shaft. If the nut isn't turning, the problem is internal to the gear box.
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:16 pm

Jim Becker wrote:If it has the late style arm, it should have a key as Mike suggested. It should have another key where the sector gear mounts on the same shaft. Either one missing could give the effect you are seeing. When it slips, see if the nut on the bottom (if there is one) turns. If it turns, you know the problem is the arm slipping on the shaft. If the nut isn't turning, the problem is internal to the gear box.


It did have both keys...and thanks, Jim, for telling me a way to check and eliminate at least that aspect of the problem. I will check it out tomorrow.

The frustrating part is that I always check each part of an assembly as I put it together. I'm not saying it went together right, just that I did check that it operated correctly. I hated the idea of taking the front end apart without at least isolating where the problem might be.

As I "screwed" the steering shaft in, the manual says nothing about when it is all the way in. I assumed that it is seated completely when the bearing hits the housing. Then I screwed the nut on until tight. Is that it? Did I forget or do something wrong?

As you may detect, I was a tad frustrated today...one step forward and two steps backward!!

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:46 pm

I checked the Worm Wheel Shaft (#20 http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Super%20A%20-%20Super%20AV/TC-39B%20Parts%20Catalog/Page%20178.jpg), and it appears to be securely attached with the woodruff keys at both ends. But I did discover that I was getting that "stripped" feeling only with the Steering Worm Bearing Retainer (#11) not screwed down. In other words, it was allowing the steering shaft to literally unscrew itself out of the housing, and as it got close to the end, that is when I got the slipping. So I "screwed" the shaft back in, then secured the Retainer.

TA DA! No slipping. HOWEVER, the Steering Gear Arm (#26) travel is assymetrical. I have full range to the left, but the shaft seems to hit the retainer inside before the arm reaches its limit to the right. That makes me think that when I INITIALLY insert the steering shaft (#6), the Arm must be in a specific postion so that once the shaft is screwed all the way in, it is centered on the Worm Wheel.

Now if you are not completely lost (or asleep!) perhaps SOMEONE out there knows just what position I need to have the arm in before I insert the shaft. I could do trial and error, but there MUST be the info somewhere. Anyone?? :big say what:

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Bigdog » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:51 pm

Dale, I would think you would want the wheels straight ahead when you insert the steering shaft. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock to determine total revolutions and then turn the wheel half way back. The wheels should be straight ahead. if they are not, remove the steering shaft, align the wheels and re-install the shaft.
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:50 pm

I don't think you can put the steering shaft in wrong. Could you have the worm wheel (#19) bottom side up? Do you have the early style (#20 and #26) or the late style (#20A and #26A)? I'm not sure it can be completely assembled with #19 inverted. (A Cub can be.)
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Funny you should ask... mine seemed to be a hybrid! I have 20A with a cross between 26 and 26A...in other words, the keyed hole like 26A (no bolt), but the old-style tie rods like 26:
Image

Think I will go dig out the 2nd steering gear housing to see if the worm ring can be installed upside down. But in this photo, I am pretty sure this is the only way it can go:
Image

The more I think about it (and this is one of the great aspects of this forum...forcing you to think! EGAD!) the more I think that it is a problem of the initial position of the steering gear arm before you install the shaft. My reasoning is, that if my steering right now is limited in range on one side, if I had turned the wheels toward that side before screwing in the shaft, I would increase the range. Remember, the shaft on the SA installs from the front (not the rear like the cub), so if I turn the wheels to the right, then start the shaft in, I should have more range to the right.

:big what:
Oh man, my brain is toast!! I think I will just try it tomorrow and see if things change. Guess I was hoping someone would have done this who could just say "OH YEAH! It goes this way..."!! My old brain isn't used to thinking this much lately! Have a good night, all. :)):

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:27 pm

BDFinch wrote:My reasoning is, that if my steering right now is limited in range on one side, if I had turned the wheels toward that side before screwing in the shaft, I would increase the range.

I'm still not ready to buy into that theory. Just turn the steering wheel another turn.

You have steering arm 356 554 R1, which was provided as a replacement to change over to a tapered shaft in tractors with the early style tie rods. Look at the end of the part listing for service package 356 552 R92.

I think there is an offset built into the worm wheel. If so, and if it is installed bottom side up, it will not be properly aligned to the worm gear. You may be able to see it by looking in the hole in the housing after the worm gear is removed. If it is out of alignment, the gears will disengage more easily that if it is in line.
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Pabst » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:12 am

BD Finch,

I had a problem with my steering on my SA just as Wisconsincubman mentioned " the key was not in place". Therefore, I had terrible steering. Pabst! :D

Great job on the SA!
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Super A » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:46 am

There's only one way the arm can attach to the shaft. As Jim says, I think the sector gear (worm wheel gear) may be on upside down. Been a while since I took one apart but I seem to recall that it has a little offset in it.

Also, those keys and keyways can wear, causing the gear and/or steering arm to be able to move when it's all assembled. Sometimes you can't see the wear unless you mic. everything, but a little bit of wear can translate into a lot of steering slop.

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Bigdog » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:07 am

Jim is correct (now that my fog has cleared), Once the steering shaft is in place the worm gear is fixed in place and the sector gear moves. The moving sector gear is what determines what the lock to lock span will be.
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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:25 am

Bigdog wrote:Once the steering shaft is in place the worm gear is fixed in place and the sector gear moves. The moving sector gear is what determines what the lock to lock span will be.


I realize that part, but I think if I reset where the shaft worm gear initially engages the worm wheel (sector gear), I can change the center position, thus the stop to stop movement, so I get full range on BOTH sides.

As the steering wheel turns LEFT, the shaft is essentiall screwing itself aft or in, as the wheel turns RIGHT, it is screwing itself forward or out. Since I am hitting the retainer (ie screwed out to the physical limit of the housing) when I turn right before I hit the limit of the arm slot, I think I should be able to reset the center position.

I may have this totally wrong, but I will try it today and get back. Whew, I will be glad to get over this hurdle!!

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Re: SA Steering adjustment problem

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:42 am

BDFinch wrote:Since I am hitting the retainer (ie screwed out to the physical limit of the housing) when I turn right before I hit the limit of the arm slot, I think I should be able to reset the center position.

The retainer should be turned in far enough to take all the axial play out of the worm gear (steering shaft). There shouldn't be a factor of "hitting the retainer" because it should always be in solid contact. Turning the steering wheel to the right should continue to turn the worm wheel to the right until either the worm wheel or the steering arm hits a hard stop.
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