No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:07 pm

Got a Super A this past weekend and when the guy brought it to the house he said "It runs, I drove it on the trailer". Well.......we have all heard that before. We just had to believe the guy though as he seemed innocent enough and was real nice so I said "OK, let me grab a battery and see what she sounds like". It would fire and hit right off, but not run and would just pop and fuss like the timing was off. Decided that was the case and made a deal for a couple pieces of Cub Fast Hitch Equipment that he wanted.

Later that evening I wanted to go out and see if we could get her running, so I begun by doing a compression test (125 psi across all cyls), checking the timing and the output of the Magneto. Had spark and it also has a "rebuilt" carburetor, so I tried it. Nothing, not even a pop. Took off the cap to set the timing to #1 TDC. Noticed that the rotor button wasn't turning when my uncle turned the crank. Hmm....weird. Took off the mag to replace with a distributor thinking it is maybe something with the mag. Before we installed the distributor, I decided to turn the engine over with the crank watching the notches in the governor. NOT TURNING! I pushed in on the governor (notches) and it started turning with the crank. My uncle said that it wasn't meshing with the governor teeth for some reason and we thought maybe they were rounded off or ground back a little.

We pulled the radiator to get a good look at the governor. Took it off and here is what we found...........

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What the heck!?!? Almost 1/4 of the teeth on the Governor are sheared off nearly FLAT!! How did this happen. From there we took a look at the camshaft timing gear (what we could see of it). As we turned the engine with the crank, we saw a just a few teeth with some chipped or broken places. Nothing like the governor gear though. Also, as turning the engine with the crank, I noticed where the cam gear was "slipping" in some places and not turning in syncronization like it should.

This is where we decided to pull the front bolster with the axle and pull the front engine cover because we knew the camshaft timing gear needed replacing also. Not that bad......but oh no, it gets worse. Notice the chipped teeth near the governor hole and near the hydraulic pump gear.

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Pulled the cover, then found this...........



It looks like not only is she gonna get a new Governor, a New Camshaft Timing Gear, but a New Crankshaft as well. The teeth on the crankshaft gear look to be fine, as well as the teeth on the hydraulic pump gear.

Ugghhhh.....oh, the work ahead. :shock: It's ok though, still not a bad deal as the rest of the tractor seems to be in decent shape. It can all be fixed correctly, I just hate to see someone "sham" up a tractor.
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Last edited by AL Farmall Boy on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:30 pm

Here are some pictures of the tractor....just for fun. Notice how It looks like the motor has been swapped out being that it isn't painted like the rest of the tractor. Funny thing is ......the block has a cast code of July 1949 and the Torque Tube has a Cast code of July 1949. The tractor serial number also corresponds to a 1949. Hmm....
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Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:15 am

I have seen this before. My experience with this was on a boat (and in the middle of a lake at midnight).
The teeth on the governor did not get heat treated properly. This caused a soft spot on the gear that wore first. This issue starts as a wear issue, but eventually causes misalignment of the gears and then the teeth break.
The broken teeth work their way through the engine and get where they shouldn't be. This is what causes the chips shown in the other gears.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:03 am

Question is.....why would someone weld the crankshaft gear to the crankshaft? Also notice that the weld has broken loose and the crankshaft gear can be wiggled back and forth on the shaft.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:25 pm

You'll probably find that the crankshaft keyway is messed up and the crankshaft gear was loose on the shaft. that's why the weld.

as to what broke first, that's a ?????? I saw one broke like that, but the crank was ok

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:19 pm

Yes the gear can be wiggled back and forth (at least a little bit while it is meshed with the cam gear). Would welding it like that be the only option as a fix other than replacing the crankshaft? Is this crankshaft not repairable? Also, would you agree that we should replace the crankshaft?

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:08 pm

i'd get it on the bench and complete the tear down before i made any decisions. cylinder sleeve condition, ring condition, head condition etc.

my guess, from your compression readings is the upper part of the motor is ok. the crank is junk regardless - loose crank gear/bad keyway/chipped teeth all doom it.

you would probably do well to get another motor for parts, as you already need a crank, camshaft, governor, and probably hydraulic pump gear. i'd closely check the oil pump as well, and clean the inside of that block to get out all the loose parts.
Last edited by artc on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:16 pm

Man that looks some like a NC tractor :D

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:30 pm

We are on the same page as you ArtC, it is just good to hear other folks' opinions and their expierences. We do have other motors, but we have a Motor out of a 1967 Farmall 140 that we disassembled a couple months ago and sold the block. I have the internal parts put away and tagged. Would the crankshaft and other needed parts from the C-123 fit the C-113 engine properly? I do remember that everything in the Farmall 140 was standard size. I tried to look up the part numbers , but for some reason on the Case/IH parts website , the engine parts aren't listed for the Farmall 140.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:35 pm

Boss Hog wrote:Man that looks some like a NC tractor :D

Ha Boss! So they wear em out and rig em up like this up there too? Yeah, 99% of the Farmalls in the worst shape that I've had have come from around here.....but that is because folks around here used them for anything and everything and might not have had a shed to park it in. They'd also loan them out to anybody and their brother so they definitely got mistreated.

Now, some of the nicest condition tractors I've had came out of Kentucky (believe it or not), as they seem to take care of their stuff alot better and just use it for one main purpose and not wear it down. This one was a parts tractor when traded for, but now I'm glad we tore on into it because I've learned something new on what to look for and what else can happen. Fixing this one is gonna be funnnnn. hahah.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:53 am

Try looking up the engine separately on the CaseIH parts website.

By the 1960's IH was putting the engines in a separate parts book from the rest of the tractor. I know it's true for the 06 and 56 series large tractors which were made right about that same time.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:16 pm

thanks for that info Matt. Didn't think about that. It is listed for the Farmall 240 Tractor, but I was wanting to make sure by looking at the Farmall 140 to be specific. I will try what you suggested.

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:21 pm

Looks like a good candidate for a V6 swap!! :{_}: Maybe a V8..... :worthy:

Re: No Wonder It Won't Run!!

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:08 pm

You got one I can put in and do you have the plans to do it? That sounds like that would be cool as long as I could still use it to cultivate with!

We have several Tractor Candidates for something like that. Maybe an 'A' would be better since it doesn't have the hydraulics to get in the way.

Not to get off topic, but We do have my grandmothers and uncles 1978 Cougar and 1978 LTD in the barn that have been sitting for about 14 years. I drove them both down there myself because they got newer cars and didn't want to keep insurance on them too. Ran them both out of gas before letting them set up so maybe they are still in "good" shape. Last time we went down there (8 miles away) and checked on them was about 7 years ago and someone or something busted the passenger window out of the LTD and the interior was FILTHY and looked awful from mildew and dirt. They both had new paint and new interior within 2 years of me parking them, and would drive anywhere you wanted to go with the A/C blowin cold.

Those have the 302 V8 engine I think, so they might be a candidate one day....