A Governor Spring

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973

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AgTires4295
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A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sat May 02, 2015 7:19 pm

So I went out to move the A and suddenly my RPMs fell to and idle before I could even move. I knew what it was (the spring) and tore into the governor. Once inside it was indeed broken so I ran to the hardware store to see if I could come up with an easy solution, comparing springs side-by-side with the original. Of course, they only had one slightly smaller and one slightly larger (same gauge of metal) so I bought both and figured, I'd go back and see how I could make it all work.

Once back at the tractor, I put the smaller spring in and put it all back together. It fired right up and I was happy since the throttle response was better. It didnt last long. About a minute into me moving the throttle back and forth, the RPMs went into a dangerously high runaway-type setting. I was able to pull it back (hoping I didnt hurt anything) and let it idle very low for a second before shutting it down.

I'm hoping there's an easy replacement spring somewhere...

Is it normal to have wear in the governor housing? It's been rubbing (I guess) for years and slowly worn the inside down pretty well. I didnt see any metal shavings in there.
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1940 Farmall A
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Super A » Sat May 02, 2015 7:26 pm

AgTires4295 wrote:So I went out to move the A and suddenly my RPMs fell to and idle before I could even move. I knew what it was (the spring) and tore into the governor. Once inside it was indeed broken so I ran to the hardware store to see if I could come up with an easy solution, comparing springs side-by-side with the original. Of course, they only had one slightly smaller and one slightly larger (same gauge of metal) so I bought both and figured, I'd go back and see how I could make it all work.

Once back at the tractor, I put the smaller spring in and put it all back together. It fired right up and I was happy since the throttle response was better. It didnt last long. About a minute into me moving the throttle back and forth, the RPMs went into a dangerously high runaway-type setting. I was able to pull it back (hoping I didnt hurt anything) and let it idle very low for a second before shutting it down.

I'm hoping there's an easy replacement spring somewhere...

Is it normal to have wear in the governor housing? It's been rubbing (I guess) for years and slowly worn the inside down pretty well. I didnt see any metal shavings in there.

Check the little thrust bearing--the small ball bearing that moves with the weights.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.

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AgTires4295
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sun May 03, 2015 8:04 am

Thanks for the response, Al. What am I checking it for?
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1940 Farmall A
1947 Farmall H
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AgTires4295
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Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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1970 Simplicity Broadmoor 728 (x2)
1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sun May 03, 2015 3:29 pm

Well I pulled the smaller spring, put the larger one in (which doesnt even allow me to pull the throttle all the way back) and tried to start.

Like an idiot, I messed with the governor to see how its works and must have messed up the timing because now all it does is backfire. I'm so frusrated that I had to leave it alone in pieces (which I secretly hate but am too frustrated to deal with it right now).

Anybody else know anything about what Al has mentioned?
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun May 03, 2015 6:47 pm

I don't have an A, but the design of the governors is similar between an A and a Cub. These comments are based on what I know about a Cub governor. If the pins that attach the weights to the carrier are worn, or the holes are egg shaped, the weights will rub on the inside of the housing and cause the wear marks you are seeing. Check to see if the weights rotate tightly on the pins or have some slack and movement that is not rotation around the pins. When the weights move in or out, they push against a bushing which pushes against the thrust bearing. If the thrust bearing is worn or rusty and doesn't rotate easily, the movement of the weights in and out, and the bushing along the shaft will be rough, slowed, or stopped. If you are unfamiliar with thrust bearings, it is basically a thin bearing that has a thin washer like piece on either side that has a concave groove in it that the balls in the bearing sit in. I went to Messick's website. They don't list an A as a model, but do have the Super A listed. If the governors are the same between the two models, they have the springs available (or from your local Case/IH dealer). If they are not the same, someone with post that and hopefully have a lead for you on where to find one. If you have a parts book for the A you might want to post the part # of the spring for help in finding it.

Bob

Edit: Steiner's shows the same part # for the spring for the A and Super A. Theirs is a little cheaper, but their shipping can be high.
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AgTires4295
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Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:36 pm
Zip Code: 20646
Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sun May 03, 2015 7:20 pm

Thanks Bob! I was feeling pretty lost there for awhile. I took a breather and did some other chores around the house before I decided to get back on it. I re-timed it and got it running using the slightly larger spring. I was happy with throttle response and took it for a spin but after about 3-5 minutes of driving, it starved and coughed until it died. I can only start it on the lowest idle and have had to limp it back. Now it'll start and run through all RPM ranges but slowly fizzles out and acts like it's starving for fuel/air. I know this is all govwrnor related but am stumped as to where to go from here. Everything works well up until it starves and dies.

Also, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems like it has more blowby since it "ran away" for about 3-4 seconds... did I hurt the ol' man? When I mean it ran away, it went from stone cold and zero to WIDE open :cry: I panicked and killed it as fast as I could but it still happened. I guess it's anybody's guess.

update: So in the 3 minutes it took to write this post, its running really well again in neutral... what gives? I'm wanting to drive it again but dont want to repeat what happened a half hour ago.

The block is also seeming to be a little warmer than normal. I let it idle high for a minute and the old spilled oil/paint where the filler neck is and over by the manifold are located are smoking from the heat... :help:

...Same scario as before. Now it chokes and dies.
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Daniel H. » Thu May 07, 2015 10:45 pm

Check the filter in the gas elbow that screws into the carb. There is a screen that will clog. Also check for full steady stream while you have the line loose from the carb. When it is under load, it is starving for gas. Also check the govenor adjustment in the operators manual. The lengh of the govenor to carb linkage is important. I think there is amanual on Rudi's site, if you don't have one.
The four most expensive words in tractor restoration: "We might as well..."

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AgTires4295
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Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:36 pm
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Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Thu May 07, 2015 11:40 pm

Thanks for the response Daniel. I went and bought the correct governor spring from IH today ($11... for a spring...) so I'll see about putting that in there and hopefully it remedies the wacky governor responses I'm seeing since everything has to be precise with this thing.

The only thing I'm worried about now is how hot I was letting it run and the runaway experience I had. I'm hoping nothing was damaged :?
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856
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Super A » Fri May 08, 2015 4:46 am

AgTires4295 wrote:Thanks for the response Daniel. I went and bought the correct governor spring from IH today ($11... for a spring...) so I'll see about putting that in there and hopefully it remedies the wacky governor responses I'm seeing since everything has to be precise with this thing.

The only thing I'm worried about now is how hot I was letting it run and the runaway experience I had. I'm hoping nothing was damaged :?


I expect the runaway didn't hurt anything. If you have oil in the crankcase and coolant in the radiator you are probably ok.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.

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AgTires4295
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Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:36 pm
Zip Code: 20646
Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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1970 Cub Cadet 127
1970 Simplicity Broadmoor 728 (x2)
1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Fri May 08, 2015 4:26 pm

Yeah I think I got away unscathed with the runaway. I installed the IH spring and it ran really well for about 30 minutes. It displayed the same symptoms as before with a sudden loss of power. This time it was almost like the kill switch grounded out and it turned off. After starting it again, I couldnt get it to run right away and when it eventually fired, if I gave it the slightest throttle, it choked and died. I thought the stock IH spring would remedy all of those problems. Now I'm really confused.
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1940 Farmall A
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Daniel H.
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Daniel H. » Fri May 08, 2015 4:40 pm

Check for trash in the filter I mentioned. I still think you have trash/rust in the fuel line somewhere. The filter looks like this:

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The four most expensive words in tractor restoration: "We might as well..."

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AgTires4295
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Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:36 pm
Zip Code: 20646
Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
1947 Farmall H
1951 Farmall Cub
1970 Cub Cadet 127
1970 Simplicity Broadmoor 728 (x2)
1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sat May 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Well I was able to budget enough time to devote the afternoon to the A. I looked for that piece, Daniel but I have only aftermarket fittings from the tank to the carburetor. I still pulled the carb off, cleaned it as best as I could and put it all back together. When I fired it up, it ran really well and I was skeptical but I took my son for a 30 minute ride and it never showed the same symptoms. The only thing I'm dealing with now is that it burns oil like crazy since the runaway incident. I pulled the #1 spark plug and it was really oily. Bummer. At least it runs well now :?

I need to do a compression test and see what my numbers are this year.
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Re: A Governor Spring

Postby SONNY » Sun May 10, 2015 8:23 am

overspeed CAN cause broken rings,(which may have been getting close to giving up, anyway)---and could have tossed the carbon out from the rings,---kinda sounds like weak/broken oil rings.
after some use it may re-seal for a while ---re-check your time,--it may be off a little too much! thanks; sonny
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Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby Super A » Sun May 10, 2015 9:15 am

Have you driven it much prior to this whole governor thing? You probably need to just run it a while. I don't think the governor over-speeding (more like it probably just ran wide open) did any sort of damage, that's just my gut feeling. More than likely it hasn't been overhauled in 50 years and it's time. I'd dump a can of seafoam in the gas and run it and see what happens.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.

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AgTires4295
5+ Years
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Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:36 pm
Zip Code: 20646
Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
1947 Farmall H
1951 Farmall Cub
1970 Cub Cadet 127
1970 Simplicity Broadmoor 728 (x2)
1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: A Governor Spring

Postby AgTires4295 » Sun May 10, 2015 9:57 am

I use it regularly as transportation between Amish farms and to haul trash on an 8x8 trailer to the dump so it sees quite a bit of use. Maybe the rings will find their place. I'll definitely re-time it and see how that goes since I've mastered the process in recent years. It is indeed in original condition and has never been overhauled.

Thanks for the responses everyone! You cant put a price on the value of this forum with everyone's input and advice.
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1940 Farmall A
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