Sleeve Installation

Farmall C & Super C Tractors, 1948-1954

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Sleeve Installation

Postby Harold R » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:09 am

I'm about to install the new sleeves in my Super C block. Each sleeve came with an o-ring. Is there anything more to it than sliding the o-ring on and tapping the new sleeve in? Does anyone use additional sealant? I have cleaned the block very well, so the fit should be good. Any advice before I start this is welcome. :D
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:07 pm

Lubricate the o-rings before you drop the sleeves in. This is to avoid damaging the o-rings during assembly. Ues a liquid SOAP, not a petroleum product. There is a lube specially made for this. Many people use liquid dish soap.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Stan_VA » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:08 pm

Harold R wrote:Is there anything more to it than sliding the o-ring on and tapping the new sleeve in?


Harold,
I'm a little unsure of the way you posed the question? If this is mis-reading you and already obvious, my apologies. But you don't slide the O-ring over the sleeve, the O-ring goes in the block, then slide the sleeve down into it.
Before you put the new O-rings in, make sure you've dug the old ones out, and cleaned the slot of any scale/grease/silicone/... Also clean the shoulder at the top and first dry test all 4 sleeves without the O-rings to verify that they go in easily by hand, turn freely and sit down to a uniform height (don't have the manual in front of me but they typically stand up about .005 above the deck). Common problem is that one or two sit too high and you need to clean out that shoulder a little more. Once you're happy with the test fit, the O-rings get tucked into the slot down in the block. then lubricate the exposed face of the O-ring (I use a little ivory soap) and press the sleeves down in while slightly twisting them until fully seated. You can turn the block back over and look in with a light to make sure the O-ring didn't twist or break out on you. Hope that helps.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Harold R » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:00 pm

If it sounds like I've never done this before....then that would be correct. I have the very generic IT manual which doesn't help me much so I thought I'd better seek advice. Thanks to both post, I think I can get it done. However, I'm going out to the shop now for a trial run. :D
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Harold R » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:27 am

OK.....I found the ring groove for the o-ring at the base of sleeve mount. Got the old ones out and cleaned the groove. The manual.....or the non-illustrated paragraph devoted to sleeve installation, makes no mention of added sealer to the o-rings, or the top of the sleeve at the flange. Is the head gasket and head bolt torque enough to keep water from seeping up into the cylinder?
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Bermuda Ken » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:47 am

With the sleeve o-ring properly installed and the head torqued to value, you will not need to use any sealer on the top of the sleeve or on the o-ring at the bottom. The head gasket is designed to seal around the top of the sleeves.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Eugene » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:44 pm

There is a tool for removing and installing sleeves. If you can't borrow or rent - you can manufacture one.

Sometimes the sleeves install without a lot of effort and sometimes not.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby KETCHAM » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:27 pm

I like reading this post.Hope to tear the H down this summer.Kevin :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:52 pm

The H is a dry sleeve engine, so much of this does not apply.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Into Tractors » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:02 pm

KETCHAM wrote:I like reading this post.Hope to tear the H down this summer.Kevin :twisted: :twisted:


Kevin, remind me when you are geting close to your project, providing you need to removed your sleeves. I have a sleeve installer/remover with about 8-10 different size plates for various diameter sleeves. Surely one of them is the right one for the H, and if I have the right sized plate, your welcome to borrow the tool.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Bill Hudson » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:13 pm

Into Tractors wrote:
KETCHAM wrote:I like reading this post.Hope to tear the H down this summer.Kevin :twisted: :twisted:


Kevin, remind me when you are geting close to your project, providing you need to removed your sleeves. I have a sleeve installer/remover with about 8-10 different size plates for various diameter sleeves. Surely one of them is the right one for the H, and if I have the right sized plate, your welcome to borrow the tool.


Yes, Kevin, by all means use a sleeve puller. I volunteer to help.

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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Phillip W. Lenke » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:45 am

Do not mean to break in here.
Sleeves , dry or wet is an interesting topic. We have our M which is dry sleeves , will hopefully be happening on our end as well.
I wonder if it would be an appropriate item to haul to Cubfest Ohio this year. to put them in. If I can wait that long
Any help out there , to help me if I bring it .
What needs to be done to get it ready for sleeving.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:25 am

When installing wet sleeves, I can't overstate the importance of getting the o-ring groove as clean as possible. Any crud left in the groove will make it very difficult to seat the sleeve and very likely damage the o-ring. A small wire wheel on a Dremel tool works very well for this job, as well as cleaning the top ledge.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby Harold R » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:57 am

A small wire wheel on a Dremel tool works very well for this job


While I don't have a dremel, I chucked a 3" wire wheel into a 1/4 air grinder and used it to clean out the o-ring slot and the counter-bore at the top. I urge caution though, the air grinder turns many more rpms than the wire wheel was designed for. :!:

I think it turned out well.
Image
Image

Best I can tell with just a set of feeler guages....looks like I have about .007 to .005 of the sleeve above the top of the block.
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Re: Sleeve Installation

Postby artc » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:42 am

since you've already installed the pistons in the new sleeves, you already know this but i'll mention it for the rest that are following this thread.

once the sleeves are installed, turning the engine to install pistons will cause the sleeve to come out on a cylinder that already has its piston. you need to hold them in place with a block on a head bolt to keep everything in its place.
on wet sleeve engines, i leave the oil out of the pan and the plug out after putting in the antifreeze....just to be sure that nothing is leaking past the o-rings.

you can make a puller using a length of 1" fine thread B7 rod, a couple of blocks to raise a plate off the deck, a couple of 1" heavy nuts, and sleeve discs of the correct size. i have mine machined with two steps, one top and one bottom. in the case of the "A" engine, the top step is 2.995 dia, the bottom 3.120 dia, and the center 3.250. that way the discs slip up into the sleeve and cannot score the block by slipping sideways. the reason for two steps? so if i ever need to remove the sleeves from a super A1 or a super C with 3 1/8 pistons, i'll automatically have the correct sleeve. its not that important on a wet sleeve engine, but on and H or M dry sleeve it is, because they come out harder.

to reinstall dry sleeves, freeze the sleeve and heat the block with a torpedo heater or the like. be ready with a block of wood to seat the sleeve, if necessary. many times they simply slide in to place. if a dry sleeve will not stay in the block when cooled, you can put a bit of med locktite around the sleeve and slide it back in.
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