This site uses cookies to maintain login information on FarmallCub.Com. Click the X in the banner upper right corner to close this notice. For more information on our privacy policy, visit this link:
Privacy Policy

NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS: Be sure to check your SPAM/JUNK folders for the activation email.

Super C died

Farmall C, Super C Tractors, 200 & 230 1948-1958
Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:25 am

My Super C quit in the middle of bush-hogging yesterday. I've got spark at all 4 plugs, and the carb has fuel. It floods after cranking for a while, so fuel doesn't seem to be the issue. It cranks but won't start.

Any ideas? I use this tractor all the time. Ignition parts are all just a year or two old, also plugs & wires, and I have spark.

I've been putting off replacing the head gasket for awhile (it weeps a bit). I don't have a compression tester, but up until now power hasn't been an issue - it would pull a heavy wagon in road gear (not up hill, of course). Is it feasible that a bad head gasket would cause a sudden stall and refusal to start? I had just pulled into some taller grass, so it was under load when it suddenly sputtered and died.

Thanks
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H

SPONSOR AD

Sponsor



Sponsor
 

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 17214
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Super C died

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:28 am

I lean towards it being a fuel issue. The sputter when it quit is more a symptom of fuel problems. Ignition is usually abrupt, like hitting the switch. If you had a catastrophic head gasket failure, you should be able to notice lost compression. If you have a hand crank, you should be able to feel fairly consistent compression on each 1/2 turn of the engine. If no crank, you should hear uniform compression in the cranking speed (less obvious on 12 volts).

You can have clogged passages in the carb that will keep it from starting but the choke still pull enough fuel into the throat to make it run out the weep hole. Have you tried to see if it will fire with a small shot of starting fluid?

I am currently dealing with a similar problem with a car. It stumbled, would hardly keep running. (My first thought was vapor lock, but a several hour cool down didn't help.) There is a healthy squirt from the accelerator pumps in both carbs (should be enough fuel available). Yet the only way it will even try to start is with a shot of starting fluid. If started, enough throttle may keep it running for a few seconds. I think I will run a compression test, but figure I need to dig into the carburetors.

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4945
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:37 pm

If it's getting fuel the plugs should be wet and smell like raw gas after some attempts to start it.

You said it's getting spark. What kind of spark? It should be bright blue. A weak yellow spark may mean no spark at all under compression.

I sincerely doubt it's the head gasket, unless the tractor has been running rough for some time. Unfortunately many people do not know what a 4-cylinder tractor should sound like, and base their opinions off of hearing an old Deere put-put along. A Farmall should sound like a sewing machine by comparison.

Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Thanks for the ideas. I will check compression, spark and the carb when I get home tonight.

Up until yesterday it was running fine. Just to illustrate, a couple of weeks ago I was unloading a hay wagon in the barnyard, and the cows were nosing around the tractor as they will. When I started the tractor back up it did sound like a John Deere, but I put the wagon and then the tractor away before looking to see what was wrong. The #1 plug wire was gone - but the tractor started and drove - popping like a JD - without it. Found the wire and put it back on and everything was fine.

Wish it was that easy this time...
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H

LincTex
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:12 am
Zip Code: 76633

Re: Super C died

Postby LincTex » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:32 pm

You didn't say if it is Magneto or Battery/points ignition.

Either way, a bad ignition coil (more common with the magneto) will get weaker and weaker as it heats up until the spark is no longer strong enough to fire.

Do you have Ethanol gas? This new gas has a bad tendency to hold a lot of water that you can't see in the fuel bowl, especially after a rain. Try draining both the sediment bowl under the tank (clean that flat disc screen, too), the fuel inlet elbow on the carb (remove the fuel line and unscrew, there's a screen in there).... and if none of that works, disassemble the carb and clean it out.

Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:17 am

Didn't have much time last night, but here's where I am.

The hand crank feels like consistent compression on all 4 cylinders.

Spark looks fine, but I'll test the coil tonight.

Carb is delivering lots of gas to the throat. If I crank for any length of time with the choke closed gas pours out of the weep hole. Opened the carb up and Its not full of gunk or anything - looks nice and clean. I did a basic rebuild on it about 5 years ago, and it has always run fine since.

After cranking plugs certainly smell of gas, but not visibly wet - but I didn't crank for that long.

It is a battery ignition btw, no magneto.
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 17214
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Super C died

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:08 am

OK, you have compression, you have spark, you have fuel. Since it was running then quit, the timing should be OK. That should be all it takes to make it run.

Unless somebody has other ideas, all I can suggest is going back over things to find something possibly missed the first time. (Include checking the plug wires that none were accidentally crossed while testing things.) I again suggest trying starting fluid. If it will fire on starting fluid, you are back to a fuel problem. Make sure the plugs are clean/dry before the staring fluid test.

Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:56 pm

Thanks, Jim. Yes, that is all it should take for it to run, which is why this is driving me nuts!

Forgot to mention I did try starting fluid last night. I assume you mean just in the air cleaner? No luck, which makes it look electrical.

Haven't got more than a backfire out of it since it stalled. Got backfire twice - once after cranking a bit with the switch off (I mean it backfired after the brain re-engaged and I turned the switch back on), and once after replacing a plug after cranking with it out.

Might have an hour or so to spend with it tonight.
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2783
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: Super C died

Postby outdoors4evr » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:57 am

I am betting on timing. Perhaps the distributor drive gear has skipped a tooth?
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

LincTex
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:12 am
Zip Code: 76633

Re: Super C died

Postby LincTex » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:37 pm

.

Timing is super easy to check without disassembling anything.

I'm thinking bad gas/water in gas is still possible. Does the stuff that drains out of the carb weephole take a long time to dry from your fingers? Then you have water in it.

Did you clean the points with 400-600 grit emery paper? What do all the components inside the distributor cap look like?

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 17214
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Super C died

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:21 pm

LincTex wrote:Did you clean the points with 400-600 grit emery paper?

If he did, that will be another thing to fix.

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4945
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:42 pm

The gear mesh on the timing gears is such that if it "skipped a tooth" there is something majorly wrong with the tractor.

Far more likely is the possibility of someone forgetting to tighten the distributor clamps completely, and them loosening up over time until eventually they got loose enough that the distributor shifted.

Check timing by pulling the #1 (front) plug, and rotating the engine by hand with your thumb over the hole until it blows. Then shine a light in and bring the piston up to its highest point. Now pull the distributor cap and see where the tab on the rotor is pointing. If it's not directly under the post leading to the #1 spark plug wire, then your timing is off.

Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:01 am

So the correct answer was something that seemed unlikely to me , even though some clues pointed to it. The timing was off. How could that have happened? The distributor gear does seem worn, that is, the teeth look kind of small and vague. As far as I could see the teeth on the distributor drive shaft looked much more distinct.

It always seems weird when things "suddenly" wear out. For how long, as I used this tractor regularly for the last 5 years - spreading manure, logging, hauling firewood and hay wagons, mowing - was this waiting to happen? And what was the straw that broke the camel's back at that moment? It ran fine when I put the timing right, but I'll get a new distributor gear - or a whole new distributor - and hope that's it.

In the subject of timing, I've done it on my cub and H, and on both the indicators are obvious and easy to see, but I could find neither the supposed mark on the flywheel or the mythical indicator on the clutch housing. Is that a common issue on ABCs? Lucky it's so easy to see the piston through the plug hole.
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H

LincTex
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:12 am
Zip Code: 76633

Re: Super C died

Postby LincTex » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:27 pm

Red Rooster, I am glad you figured it out.
You are referring to the shaft and gear inside the distributor, correct?

Jim Becker wrote:If he did, that will be another thing to fix.


Jim, Why would you say this?
I have been cleaning points with 400-600 grit "wet/dry" sandpaper since the late 70's and have never had an issue.
I far prefer it to a points file. It works better than anything else I have ever used.

Red Rooster
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:08 pm
Zip Code: 13317
Tractors Owned: '58 Cub Lo-Boy
'52 Super C
'43 H
Location: Ames, NY

Re: Super C died

Postby Red Rooster » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:30 pm

Thanks. Yes, the gear that is worn comes off with the distributor when it is removed. The drive shaft (which has the matching gear on it) remains in the drive housing. I see that both are available as new replacement parts, which I am ordering now.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. :D
Red Rooster
(Eric Trahan)
58 Cub Lo Boy
52 Super C
43 H


Return to “Farmall C, Super C, 200 & 230”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests