How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Farmall H, HV & Super H, 300 & 350, 1939-1958
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How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby havoc1482 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:30 am

I've never actually looked into this. I've only extensively dealt with Touch Control tractors and have never actually worked with a H/M unit that was used for more than pulling a trailer. I thirst for knowledge haha
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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Super A » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:09 am

The hydraulic pump is driven off the front of the transmission counter shaft, so it's not a live system like touch control. It's strictly for operating hydraulic cylinders.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby v w » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:41 am

It is a one way system meaning that the system will lift and gravity brings the implement back down. A few of the last of the super M's, not sure about the H, had two way live systems that were driven by a pump mounted between the distributor and the engine. If you want a two way system on older models a block can be mounted to do so. Some say a conversion of the older ones can be made and I have seem it but have also been told the timing gears in the older models are not strong enough. Vern

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Scrivet » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:19 am

You can plumb a two way cylinder off of a liftall. Just need a valve.

Live hydraulics ran from a pump mounted by the distributor as has been said and is like the touch control it can be used any time. The liftall belly pump only worked with the clutch up. If you are stopped with your foot holding the clutch down and you want to raise the implement, you shift to neutral, let the clutch out. pull the liftall lever, push the clutch in, shift into gear, let the clutch out and go.

When loading something repetitively, like gravel or manure, with a trip bucket on a liftall you get very good at clutching, shifting to go forwards and back, adjusting throttle, pulling lever to raise and lower bucket, working the bucket trip lever, then resetting the bucket by dropping the loader to the ground while backing up away from where you dumped the load and get latched and raised before you need to go forward into the pile again. Done well it's like a choreographed dance, hands and arms slicing through the air with impeccable timing and precision............. or so they tell me. :shock: When I do it with any appreciable speed it usually turns into a man being attacked by a swarm of hornets and a lot of Navy words. :lol:

Two other liftall points of interest. They take 30wt non detergent motor oil. They have three outputs, two on the left, one on the right. They all become returns when you push the lever all the way forward on a one way system. The rear one on the left side is a delayed lift, used for cultivators. When you get to the edge of the field and pull the lever, the front section, mounted near the front wheels, comes up. The section mounted behind the rear wheels stays in the ground and then raises a few seconds later. If you time it right, it will raise at the same point at the end of the row the front section did, as you are travelling forward. Same applies when you start the next row, front drops first and as you are travelling into the row the rear drops.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Virginia Joe » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:38 pm

I would like to hook up a three point hitch log splitter to my Farmall H. It will be interesting since I don’t actually have a three pint hitch per-say on the tractor. Anyway, my question is: Can I use the H’s Hydraulic unit to run the log splitter? My log splitter has the control valve so all I need to do (I think) is hook up a supply and a return hoses to it. Can I do this with my H’s hydraulic unit? :? If so, which port should I use to supply the control valve and which should be the return? Thanks for any and all advice. :mrgreen:

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Scrivet » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:40 pm

Virginia Joe wrote:I would like to hook up a three point hitch log splitter to my Farmall H. It will be interesting since I don’t actually have a three pint hitch per-say on the tractor. Anyway, my question is: Can I use the H’s Hydraulic unit to run the log splitter? My log splitter has the control valve so all I need to do (I think) is hook up a supply and a return hoses to it. Can I do this with my H’s hydraulic unit? :? If so, which port should I use to supply the control valve and which should be the return? Thanks for any and all advice. :mrgreen:
The liftall should be running on 30wt nondetergent motor oil, what's the splitter been using? All three ports on the liftall are outputs until you release the lift rod and then the weight of the implement forces the oil back into the liftall right back the way it came. You don't want to be having to pull and release the lift rod every time you cycle the splitter, besides the splitter won't have any weight to retract the cylinder. You would need to plumb a return into the drain plug on the bottom or through the filler on top and tie the lift rod in the raise position. That would give you a constant flow to the splitter control valve. Now that those issues are being considered how worn is your pump and what pressure and volume does the splitter take to run efficiently?

My gut feeling is while you could make it work, it would be slow and probably underpowered.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:59 pm

Virginia Joe wrote:I would like to hook up a three point hitch log splitter to my Farmall H. It will be interesting since I don’t actually have a three pint hitch per-say on the tractor. Anyway, my question is: Can I use the H’s Hydraulic unit to run the log splitter? My log splitter has the control valve so all I need to do (I think) is hook up a supply and a return hoses to it. Can I do this with my H’s hydraulic unit? :? If so, which port should I use to supply the control valve and which should be the return? Thanks for any and all advice. :mrgreen:


Yes, you can.

On an H or M, all three ports provide pressure when the lever is pulled. Any of these ports can be used to supply the control valve.

Oil would be returned through the fill pipe or drain plug, depending on your personal preference.

Basically it is the same setup as a two-way valve described above, because that's what it is!

As stated above, it will be SLOW, but it will get the job done. There are some on here, such as myself, who want to get their wood split as quickly as possible and would not be happy with the performance. Then there are others who are not in a hurry and are just thankful that they don't have to swing a maul.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:08 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:......... Then there are others who are not in a hurry and are just thankful that they don't have to swing a maul.
and also some that are no longer able to swing a maul.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Puffie40 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:53 pm

Please note with these hydra-lift pumps that they are low pressure. The very early ones were rated for 500psi while later ones were rated at 800psi. The blue ribbon manual suggests a high-pressure retrofit kit was available for early models and dealer-modified ones could be identified by paint markings.

Regarding the comment about the delay lift, I believe that was actually a separate component (basically a flow valve) that was plumbed into the output - the schematics in the Blue ribbon manual only show a regular manifold past the internal valve.

I don't know the flow of the hydraulic pump, but when I had mine apart, the gears were around 2 inches in diameter and a good 2.5 to 3 inches long, so the pump could move a lot of oil.

Plumbing the pump to run a double acting cylinder is pretty simple - plumb one of the outputs to a spool valve and the return of that spool valve to a tee installed on the drain. I'd wouldn't recommend plumbing the tee into the fill pipe as the return will cause oil to squirt out the vent cap and the flow through the air gap would cause the oil to foam up.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:07 pm

Yes, the delay output of the rear port on the left side is a MYTH. The delay requires an external component.

All three ports provide the same pressure simultaneously. The reason there are three ports is for front-mounted cultivators. There is a port for the left gang, another for the right gang, and the third port lifts the "wheel track scrubbers" in the rear. An optional multi-control valve allows for lowering left or right gangs individually, for finishing up the last 1 or 2 rows in the field.

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:12 pm

Here is the myth, schematic straight from IH.

Positions "A" and "B" are both used to lower the system. When the control lever is moved to position "B", the check valve connected to the front cylinders opens. This will allow the front section of an implement to lower to work position while the rear remains in the raised position. Position "A" opens both check valves. Moving the lever first to "B" then "A" causes a delayed drop of the rear section.

schematicS.jpg

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Re: How do the hydralics on an H/M work?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:34 pm

Yes, the myth is that it's an AUTOMATIC delay.

That and the detents are worn so badly on them by now that it's near impossible to find position B.


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